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Original poster

Advice on notice needed with our childminder, please

38 replies

bsmirched · 08/02/2012 22:25

DS, 19 months old, has been with our CM since September, 3 and a half days a week. Up until Christmas, he seemed very settled and happy and we were delighted with her.

Since Christmas, we've had more and more days when she's reported he's been unhappy, to the point that she says he now cries most of the time when at her house unless he's picked up and cuddled.(Apparently he's fine when taken to toddler group/play barn etc)

On three occasions in the last few weeks she's contacted me at work and asked me to pick him up early as he wouldn't stop crying. She has now said that if her 'strategies' to try to stop him crying for no reason don't work by the end of the next four weeks she wants us to find him alternative childcare as he is interfering with her minding and is 'very hard to listen to'

She has put the above in writing, also stating that I am not to leave in a morning if he's crying and that if he's still crying 15 minutes after we arrive that I must take him away again. She also writes that she will get us out of work to collect him if he cries too much. ( I should add at this point that he's not a whingey, clingy boy when with us!)

Bearing in mind all this, we've been looking for an alternative anyway. I'm a teacher so on half term next week, so could attend some settling in sessions with him at the nursery we've found, so an ideal time for him to start there would be after half term.

I feel that the conditions she's putting on having him mean that I really no longer have the reliable childcare that I signed up for so don't feel inclined to give and pay for the normal notice period. What do you think? Am feeling really let down

Incidentally, due to illness in CM's family I had to ask a friend to have him for the day today - he's only ever met her three times, the last time last June. I stayed there with him for half an hour then left for work. He's been there all day with her, her two children and her toddler group friends who came round for a couple of hours over lunch with their children. He's not cried once!

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cece · 18/02/2012 18:17

I had similar. CM did not get on well with minding my dc3. She gave me notice. I had been looking for an alternative anyway as I knew DC was not happy. So in 2nd week of notice I asked her if we could make this the final week and I would pay her up till then and I would then remove him from her care. She was please not to have dc for the final two weeks of our contract and so she was happy to do this.

I think you need to speak to your CM.

Original poster
bsmirched · 18/02/2012 17:49

Yes and because I 'have' to send him it'll be almost guilt free!

OP posts:
ChippingInNeedsCoffee · 18/02/2012 16:39

1 day a week in the hols is great - keeps his hand in & gives you a day to yourself - perfect :)

redglow · 18/02/2012 16:36

So glad it worked out for you. I am so glad you did not have to pay notice. I am sure she had someone else lined up. This means everyone is happy. Lots of luck for your son settling in to nursery.

Original poster
bsmirched · 18/02/2012 16:06

Thanks both. We haven't quite got term time only but can reduce his hours quite substantially in the holidays ie. he can do 1 day a week instead of 3.5 which is fine and certainly over the summer I'd have wanted him to 'keep his hand in' anyway. Besides which they're running a mini Olympics in August which will be worth paying for I imagine!

OP posts:
ChippingInNeedsCoffee · 18/02/2012 14:46

Hmm - I'd be suspicious too, if she wanted to keep him as a mindee she could have handled this much better, it does seem to indicate that she had another motive.

I hope he settles into nursery and loves it.

Did you manage to get a term time only agreement with them?

Bossybritches22 · 18/02/2012 14:29

Well done bsmirched- sounds like every one will be happier all round.

I agree her response sounds like she wanted him out for whatever reason but alls well I hope your DS settle into nursery and you have less stress with his care!

Original poster
bsmirched · 17/02/2012 15:29

Breatheslowly - thank you!

Our CM received our letter yesterday and immediately got back to us saying it was absolutely fine, best all round etc! I really can't help thinking that she's got a full timer lined up for his place (he goes 3.5 days and doesn't pay for school holidays) and that maybe this was what this was all about. When I re-read her letter it almost seems deliberately provocative IYKWIM. Then again, maybe I've just got a suspicious nature!

Once again, thanks for all advice and thoughts.

OP posts:
zipzap · 15/02/2012 22:14

Think I'd have tried something along the lines of you are happy for him to remain at cm under the original terms of the contract for his 4 week notice period but that you do not believe the additional terms are fair or reasonable as you would have never agreed to these terms originally as they prevent you from doing your job properly.

Furthermore you feel that these unreasonable demands are tantamount to forcing you to withdraw immediately as the cm does not appear to be prepared to do her job and settle your child. As such you are offering one weeks notice in full and final settlement of the bill. I'm not a lawyer but you get the gist of what I'm saying, I'm sure a legal bod could make it much better and more legal!

She might call your bluff and say that she wont oppose the conditions and then you might have to pay 4 weeks but she might appreciate that as an honourable way out for both of you. But might at least get you out of being taken to court and show that you mean business too.

breatheslowly · 15/02/2012 21:08

I hope he is happy in his new nursery and it gives you piece of mind. Let us know how he gets on with settling in.

Original poster
bsmirched · 15/02/2012 21:02

Sorry for not replying sooner - I kept checking back to threads I'm on and it hadn't updated it!

Well - we've taken the decision to move him immediately as we think it best for all concerned.

I hope none of you think I'm trying to 'get out of' anything, it's just that we can't manage a situation where we don't know from one morning to the next whether or not we have childcare and we have to pay a nursery 4 weeks upfront and, like most people don't have unlimited funds!

I'm afraid we've taken the view that it is our CM who has moved the goalposts/altered the terms of our agreement unilaterally, and in doing so has created an unworkable situation. Added to which, as it's now half term, I can accompany our son on some settling in sessions at nursery. If we leave it another 2 weeks, we then have a maximum of another 2 weeks to move him and no chance for him to have some short settling sessions first.

I think I've also taken huge exception to the CM's letter to us - she describes in great detail the effect of DS's crying on her ' a constantly crying child is very hard to listen to', the other children, their parents and her setting. At no point does she express any concern as to what any of this might be doing to DS. She also says he holds his breath if she 'doesn't give in to his demands' He's 19 months old. He doesn't make demands and holds his breath if he's VERY upset about something! Anyway, I digress!!

Helendee - although the problem has been going on for a few weeks, until the last couple of weeks it hadn't in any way been described to us as being to the sort of extent that it might mean we have to find somewhere else for him. We'd been informally discussing strategies and had agreed with everything the CM wanted to try.

Thanks for all your replies.

OP posts:
breatheslowly · 15/02/2012 19:51

I think it might be worth paying a solicitor for advice on this as it would probably cost less than the 4 weeks notice period. It seems to me that she is not following the terms of the original contract by imposing lots of other conditions on your DS's care and therefore either she should be reverting to the normal agreement of you drop your DS off and she cares for him until pickup time unless he is ill or she should waive your notice period. Have you considered posting this in legal for advice?

porcamiseria · 15/02/2012 12:12

I think you need to out it down to experience, clearly its NOT working. Use her for the next 4 weeks and find somewhere else. good luck

agree with ladyharriet, try and mutually cut down the notice period

soph12345 · 14/02/2012 16:07

Having read all of this thread I can empathise with both sides. I'm a registered child minder. So as a bit of a cheeky girl I'm wondering if the lady did pull her ds out and if she's looking for another cm I'd love to have him! Not sure if I'm allowed to say that but I have. I'm sure in the right environment he'd be fine. X

Helendee · 13/02/2012 16:48

I would suggest that it is equally the parents' responsibility to talk to the childminder about developing problems, it is obvious that the problem has been there for a while now.

Communication is usually the answer, on both sides.

Bossybritches22 · 13/02/2012 16:23

Helendee a responsible CM would have asked the OP to have a chat at a mutually convenient time right at the outset of any problems. Then concerns could have been raised and discussed and a plan made for withdrawing or supporting the CM in settling the distressed child.

You cannot expect a client to accept moving goalposts with regard to the service offered,and it is unrealistic (for both parties) to demand that the OP stay with the child in the morning and remove him after 15 mins if not settled.

We all know that if a child is unsettled in a setting that having a parent/carer hovering and then withdrawing the child is both unsettling to the child and also sends mixed messages about mums role.

OP I thin you need to ask for a chat outside her normal CM hours to be fair to all concerned and to keep it confidential. It's not fair to continue if your son is distressed and she obviously doesn't want him their but she has to fulfil her side of the contract if she expects you to to honour yours.

Helendee · 13/02/2012 14:52

I think that you should be pleased that you have such a responsible childminder who is willing to admit that she is finding your ds too difficult to look after. Surely you would rather he was placed somewhere he will settle and be happy. Your current cm could easily lie to you and pretend that everything was hunky dory but she is realistic and efficient enough to know that things aren't working out.

Of course you have to pay her re the terms of the contract, if you don't you will probably find yourself taken to the small claims court.

Original poster
bsmirched · 09/02/2012 20:27

Wow, thanks for all the replies!
I do have a contract with her, but as some of you have said, I feel that the conditions she's imposing on DS being with her mean that she's not really doing the job I'm paying her for. Each morning when I go, I don't know if I'm going to be leaving to go to work or having to take DS with me! Equally, I don't know from one hour to the next if she's going to phone and ask me to collect him! My head teacher has been incredibly understanding thus far but I can't expect her to keep letting me nip off early! I just feel that she's making the situation untenable and feel that I have no choice but to find alternative arrangements but really can't afford to pay 4 weeks notice to her whilst paying for a month up front at a nursery!

OP posts:
bbcessex · 09/02/2012 18:49

Totally agree with LadyHarriet... If she can't have him under the original terms, then surely to contract doesn't stand?

Seems really odd.

LadyHarrietDeSpook · 09/02/2012 18:31

I would be saying to the CM if she's finding it very stressful having him it may be easier to cut the notice period short and see what she says.

If she insists on the four weeks she is contractually entitled to, then it has to be on the original terms of the agreement, i.e. no ringing you and making you take him out.

DH is a teacher and when I saw your post I had to reply. There is no way you could operate like this, someone ringing you up every day.

She needs to decide if she can manage it, if she can't the gracious and morally right thing to do is to let you take your DC out early and make alternative arrangements.

Bossybritches22 · 09/02/2012 17:15

moogster the 2 scenarios you quoted are both by mutual agreement, the CM might not like it but as she set the contract that's the deal.

CM says sorry I want more time with LO, Mum says OK through gritted teeth but an end date is agreed .

Equally if Mum moves a job she gives notice to CM they agree the date 4 weeks hence, & the CM gnashes her teeth at the loss of income or reaches for her waiting list!

In this case we don't KNOW there is a contract or what the agreed notice is although it is usual to have 4 weeks.

However as the CM has been expressing her dissatisfaction with the OP's son being distressed since Christmas I would venture that there is an element of "constructive dismissal" in that she has repeatedly dictated what will happen instead of sitting down to have a good chew over of ideas with her client to try and resolve the issue.

Therefore I, personally, would not be offering to pay the whole notice period.

But we don't know all the facts, it's up to the OP.

Hope you get it sorted bsmirched it's very stressful for all concerned.

redglow · 09/02/2012 16:59

The cm is not providing the service if she is ringing mum up , so mum cannot really work. Especially a teacher how can she just walk out.?

Fraktal · 09/02/2012 16:49

I think it does make a difference though if the CM is categorically refusing to provide the service at all. In this case, however, she is albeit with a hefty change to the conditions.

thebody · 09/02/2012 14:29

As moogster says and sounds like a sad situation for your little one and you. I wouldn't try anymore with her as its clearly not working for either of them, she may have tried very hard with him or not, u will never no so u should pay her what u owe her as per contract and all move on.

moogster1a · 09/02/2012 14:02

You also do not negotiate what you think is fair. Like it or not, CM contracts are legally binding. You don't stick to it you can find yourself with a county court summons.

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