Nanny 'v' Nursery Dilemma

im a nanny, and also worked in a nursery for nearly 3 years, i would say it is better for a child to have a nanny, as i found that you couldnt give a child enough attention at nursery, with a nanny you get what you pay for!
i prefer being a nanny as there is more freedom, the children get mor eout of it, and if you have more than one child it works out cheaper than sending both to nursery.

em xxx

clearly that's my children who are feeding the ducks, not her referees.

CAn't add much to to the very comprehensive posts from SCat other than to say we did exactly this, partly in order to allow DD to attend excellent local state pre-school - for us the quality of the education was important (DD has SEN) and tbh it was just in a different league to the 3-5 provision at the daycare we had used (which we were v happy with for baby care it should be said) and DS is now there and blossoming. It's a costly option but for us just for a few years and benefits so outweigh costs. BTW £7 ph net sounds good for the country.

SC's net pay comment is important. Always do the contract to pay your nanny gross wages not nte. Our first nanny came to us with tax owing from her prevoius employment. Because we had agreed to pay her net we ended up picking up the back tax bill as well!!

As an employer you are obliged to deduct tax and NI from your nanny's pay and, along with employers Ni, give the money to the government. You are also obliged to provide nanny with payslips detailing pay and deductions. By far the easiest way to do this is to use a payroll company, nannytax and nannypaye being the two main ones. We use the cheaper one (think it's nannypaye). Their websites are nannytax.co.uk and nannypaye.co.uk.

Approved childcarer scheme:
There is a daft scheme where your employer can give you vouchers to help towards childcare costs tax- and NI-free as salary sacrifice. Max vouchers are £50pw. If your employers offer this, you and DH can both get it. They save between £800 and £1200 per yr on tax savings depending on which tax bracket you're in. Nurseries can accept these, but now so can nannies if they are on the approved childcarer register. We're in the process of this at the mo, so not sure how it will work. Nanny must have some (could be very basic) qualification and first aid and fill in a daft form and go to a very daft interview. The application also provides a CRB check - though you'd want to check one before you take nanny on, really. Ours had another CRB just before joining us anyway. Until we've done it, we're not sure whether the hoops are too daft for words, but the savings are a significant level for us.

Any more Qs?

sorry - tediously long and x-posted with other people.
Hope it helps a little...

Costs:
Pay - watch out - nannies quote pay per hour NET, you have to pay GROSS + employers NI. www.nannytax.co.uk has a table to convert net wage per week to gross wage per week. If the nanny has no other work, then the whole of her personal tax limit applies, and there is less tax to pay. Round here nannies were asking for £5 to £7 per hour NET. We couldn't quite afford the top end nannies, BUT if they were in nursery, they'd largely be looked after by the more junior staff anyway. Our nanny may not be completely perfect, but I am SO pleased we have her - she's great - really attentive, unflappable, full of good ideas. And DS1 was getting really poor continuity in his nursery we never knew who was supposed to be looking after him.

Hidden costs - I was comparing having a nanny with me staying at home, so the extra costs were:
agency fee (we didn't pay one, but could have been approx £400)
car insurance (depends on car and age of nanny - we allowed £250/yr - we insure nanny on our car as I don't use it to go to work - if using her own, allow 40p/mile, plus you provide the car seats)
nannies lunches (food at home or out for nanny - ours brings a packed lunch, but we allowed an extra £5pw for a 3 day week which is a bit OTT) also at the moment your kids food is included in their nursery bill, but if at home will come out of your shopping bill)
extra activities (nanny typically does a little more than I would in a typical week - allowed extra £5pw. Obv compared to nursery where there are NO extra activities, you could be paying out more to take them swimming / soft play / farm park or whatever - but clearly the kids benefit from going to whatever)
nanny use of phone - I give mine a £5per month allowance for use of her mobile while working for us
Christmas bonus / presents / b/d presents etc - I allowed £150per yr
approved childcarer fee £96 per yr - we pay this, but as we get the tax-free vouchers it saves us £2000per year
NannyTax to do payroll £150 per yr (get rebate as they file on line)
plus I added in my costs of getting to work / work clothes etc as I was comparing with not working at all.

I allowed for £1400 to £2000 extra hidden costs, but in fact it's probably nearer £1000 - car ins being the biggest (I have a big car).

Hope that helps.

TBH, my job can be quite demanding, I have some extra personal stresses, and DH is rarely here to help in the am. There is NO WAY I could be getting the two of them ready and to nursery in time to get myself to work. I couldn't cope, and take my hat of to those who do.

An additional advantage is if your local preschool is a feeder for primary school then your elder is getting to know his school friends, and also if you want to use extra sessions there for the days yr not working, it's the same place for him IYSWIM. IME, sessional preschools have a nicer atmosphere and do the 'early yrs education' thing better than daycare, but that may not be usiverally the case.

ALL nannies I interviewed had worked in nurseries and said they prefered nannying as the
children got more attention.

This is my own exp, and I know people are happy using nurseries.

I wasnt joking about the biscuits ,this is a serious need for nannys (LOL)

apart from tax other expenses are minimal, light heat etc is irrelevant when you cancel it against the cost of driving to nursery for example.

she'll need cash for outings etc, will eat lunch but really there is nothing else. tax and NI is the killer but you have to pay that

I think nanny wages are very local - you need to speak to a local agency. I pay 300 pw for a live out nanny, 7.30 to 6.00 4 days plus 7.30 to 12.30 one day (ie 4.5 days a week). She is NNEB, 29, has been with us for 3.5 years and looks after 3 children, soon to be 4. (She is going up to £320 pw when this one is born but I haven't told her yet). I could pay less for one who is younger and less experienced but still very good. The thing about the country is there are fewer straight nanny jobs around - lots of NNEBs are working in nurseries and would rather work in a family - so you will probably fill it quite easily. hth

mommie.... its illegal for a nanny to be self employed (technically illegal for the EMPLOYER to employ a nanny and not pay her tax/ NI etc!)

(unless they are only doing temp work or working for lots of families.... as a maternity nurse may for example)

The law changed on 6th April 2005 and you can now be fined up to £3000 if you are a parent who does not declare that you are employing a nanny (you need to pay your employeRS contrubutions as well!)

as for a term time only nanny, im sure a nanny with their own child may jump at the chance...

Not sure your 'typical' young 20 something nanny could afford to only work part time tho!

I think its definitely worth looking for a nanny, as im sure SOMEone would LOVE the job you describe!

Mommie, you can't have a self-employed nanny. If they are your nanny, you must pay NI and tax for them. I think there used to be a loophole sometime ago which allowed a way round this but has now been stopped.

Larlylou, other costs to think about might be the annual cost of a nannytax service if you chose to use one (you can do the paperwork yourself should you so choose - depends on how organised you are!), slightly higher utility bills if you need heat and light during the day that might not otherwise be used if your children are in nursery and also some additional costs for outings or extra craft stuff that nursery would otherwise supply.

Re wages, the best thing to do is to ring a couple of local nanny agencies and ask them. there was an article last week on nanny pay in the times. London nannies now earn up to £28k! but it was a lot less out of town 18k ish I think.

Yours sounds pretty reasonable for what you want. Our nanny is paid a frightening amount, but she is very experienced and we are very near London

biscuits and lots of them

if there is a q of nursery v nanny then nanny wins, no question, for all the reasons already stated plus more. also look on gumtree.com - post an ad saying you want eg term times only and see what comes back. good luck!

if the nanny is self-employed, you wouldn't have to consider tax or national insurance would you?

work out what you would pay them a week . Then times it by how many weeks a year they would work and dived it by 52 and thats a weekly wage .might help working out tax and insurance , And by the way as a nanny with my own child I have been doing it for 22 years I would love a term time only job ,I have only in the last two weeks come out of nannying to work in a school as I feel my son whos 6 needs me even more and I want to spend holidays with just him . So you will find someone ,

I used a nursery (for 1) then a nanny (for 2). Life with a nanny is lovely, and costs (for us) about the same as nursery for 2. So much nicer - if they're still in pjs / having breakfast etc I just leave them to it. I can (by prior arrangement) work longer / different hours. She does kids laundry, washing up, makes formula up, changes beds etc, she feeds them what I'd like them to eat, and takes them on great outings (ducks, park, soft play, theatre, zoo). She takes DS1 to morning preschool, and DS2 to toddler groups. She's just moved from a nursery, and says she loves being able to give my kids lots of attention and do things with them. Other advantage is she looks after them if ill if nec.

When interviewing, I met a couple of nannies with children at school - one with teenagers she wouldn't bring, but she'd have been pleased to have the school holidays off. Another who needed to bring her 6yr old in the am and then do his school run, but she'd have used the after school club for him on the days she was working for me. Schl hols I think she'd have been stuck... Both were qualified experienced nannies.

Cost-wise, we found a big range depending mainly on experience.