Do childminders normally ask for holiday pay?

That's very cheeky, as presumably if you cannot take the equivalent time off you would then need to pay for alternative childcare elsewhere which results in a very expensive time for you.

CMs I know take unpaid holidays BUT do charge full price if the parents take hols (outside of CMs hols) this is so they 'keep the place open' for the child.

Most parents then take the same hols as the CM, so don;t have to pay.

'You think it is okay to offer a service that discriminates against single parents without extended families?'

Surely by charging anything for a service you are discriminating against someone who won't be able to pay your fees?! We are operating businesses, not charities!

Personally I take 4 weeks paid leave (as was recommended by NCMA when I became a CM, not by some illegal cartel ) and charge full fees for parents holidays. I'm sure other minders nearby take more/less leave and charge full/half/nothing - as is their choice, and perhaps reflects how 'in demand' they are? Its a free market economy and parents are completely at liberty to choose my service or not. Luckily I provide an excellent service and I have no problem finding mindees and have a long waiting list.

If mindees leave any I have taken more holidays than pro-rata I've been entitled to then I would reconcile this with their final bill - hardly rocket science!

If childminders want to be treated as professionals they should operate in a professional manner, and demanding payment for offering no service is simply not professional.

Absolutely. Totally agree. Childminders should not charge for their holidays under any circumstances.

Hey mr anchovy, I'm with you, I hated it which is why I'm so pleased to be out of it. Holiday clubs aren't perfect but I don't feel I'm being conned now.

Don't get me wrong, my childminders were all great, two of them good friends, and my children adored (and still adore) them but you can't have it all ways.

Do you think you could change your statement to some childminders, mr anchovy because you are mistaken in your assumption that all cm's charge for their holidays.

most people get more than four weeks leave

Do you have any statistics that back that up? I believe the majority of workers get exactly that, the statutory minimum (plus bank holidays which is a whole other can of worms).

most children have two parents

That's pretty hard on the many children that don't - and working single parents need all the breaks they can get IMHO, not extra pressure.

and possibly extended family.

... or possibly not. You think it is okay to offer a service that discriminates against single parents without extended families?

if people are willing to pay then she will charge

People aren't willing to pay, they are forced into it because of the probably illegal cartels that childminders operate, and then suffer financial hardship like runtybunty because of it.

Can you tell I am passionate about this? If childminders want to be treated as professionals they should operate in a professional manner, and demanding payment for offering no service is simply not professional.

As others have suggested, look at your total annual costs, and whether the service offered works for you, and if you can't afford, don't want to pay it or don't like the terms, go elsewhere. Even if she is more expensive than others, she may be worth it. I don't really see how it is cheeky - now if she somehow disguised the fact that she would be taking this holiday, that would be cheeky. As for how you cover six weeks absence, most people get more than four weeks leave, and most children have two parents, and possibly extended family.

Unfortunately it does seem to be normal practice. How on earth you're supposed to cover 6 weeks hols if you only get 4 weeks is beyond me. And paid too, very cheeky.

But it is in her t&cs. If you don't like it go elsewhere I'm afraid, if people are willing to pay then she will charge.

I don't charge for my hols (charge when I'm available), but maybe my daily rate is higher to compensate?

However ... some CMs who do not charge holidays can then not afford to take holidays ... you are the leaving your child with a carer who may not have had a break at all for the last 3 yrs and probably needs a break to offer the best quality care.

Has OP said whether she is charged when she is on holiday? When my parents are away, they are charged full fee, because I am still available. Some CMs charge 50% for their hols and 50% for parents hols, which works out about the same amount of money as my deal.

My old cm used to do this and I found it really hard. At the time I was a single mum and also self-employed so received no holiday/sickness pay. It was a tricky situation as I couldn't afford to pay someone else to look after dd while I was already paying for cm but equally couldn't afford to take 2 weeks off work as mine was the sole income. It was a very tricky juggling act!

I stuck with her for a while because she was really nice and a great childminder but eventually I had to enrol dd in a nursery where holidays weren't an issue.

mercibucket - surely you do? Do you really expect us to believe that you don't factor time off into your hourly rate?

You see 'justredbin's point is why it is cheeky!
It's the comparison with an employee. They don't work 'for' you - they are self employed. I am self employed. I don't get paid holiday - I have to factor it in to fees. Maybe I will specify a 'holiday pay' element on the bill for a laugh

You see 'justredbin's point is why it is cheeky!
It's the comparison with an employee. They don't work 'for' you - they are self employed. I am self employed. I don't get paid holiday - I have to factor it in to fees. Maybe I will specify a 'holiday pay' element on the bill for a laugh

I work with my DH and we have 5 weeks off a year. We don't charge for holidays, ours or the clients.

The house price analogy is bad as pointed out above. However do you expect to get paid paid holidays as part of your employment Ts&Cs? If so why would you expect an employee of yours to settle for less?

With respect... The house price comparison wasn't an analagy but rather an anomaly ... If she can run her businesslike this and parents pay for this then good on her, this isn't about what is morally right or wrong !

I would if I could and to say otherwise would b a lie.its. It isnt a crime yet is it to make as much money as possible out of offering brilliant child care.??

Or is it just bankers who can shaft people?

House prices in London are higher than in Wales. That's not a cheek that's life and market rates!

That's not a good analogy. Childminders charging when they are not working is not like the difference between house prices in London and Wales, its like buying a house and not being able to live in it for 6 weeks of the year.

The 'cheeky' thing comes from being self employed. Typically, employees get holiday pay from employers, self employed or those not directly emploed by client factor it in to their fees but tend not to ask eg I've never paid my milkman for his holidays and would be a bit hmm about it
But up to her what she sets out in her t and c
I still wonder how it works though eg someone leaves just before her hols, you take their place then immediately have to pay for the holiday - why don't the other people have to pay anything towards it?

Don't get the 'she's being cheeky' thing.

If it was the market rate for her area and parents paid it then how is that cheeky? That's good business .

House prices in London are higher than in Wales. That's not a cheek that's life and market rates!

Some people have a strange attitude to small businesses and market rates!

It's not cheeky and is very common. My CM takes 4 weeks at half pay and we are allowed to take an additional 4 weeks at half pay. Some childminders won't charge for their holiday but will charge for yours so it ends up the same in the end.

mine took no pay during the holidays, but suspect that was all factored into her hourly rate for the rest of the time

well if she doesn't do it that way she will increase her hourly to "cover" it IYKWIM so if the hourly is a good rate and you work it out and it's comparable, then fine

My holiday pay isn't paid when I take holiday its included in my hourly so its up to me to save a little as I go for holidays