Just been Lectured to by one of my mindees parents! Need to rant

But as I understood it Saltire has shared her experience in order for other posters to give their thoughts on it. Other people have commented on her handling of the situation too. The strongest thing I have said is that, in my opinion, she couldn't control all of those children at the same time, which is why one of them wandered out into the road and she had to shout. It isn't a personal attack. It's just my view of the situation she's presented.

Not read thread

Sounds like things are out of control though - what about a buggy board for roads etc?

Personally if someone shouted at my child I would move them to another care environment though - I've only shouted when it's been me that's out of control.

I'm not keen on shouting either, but I think "get out of the road" to a child who is dawdling in the middle of one is incredibly sensible. It was, to my mind, an emergency situation.
In every other situation than in your own home, the care your child get may not be exactly as you would do it yourself. This is a fact of life & is completely unavoidable, unless you home educate and are with your child 24/7.
The most important thing is for parents & carers to work together to try to ensure that the care is as consistent as possible. These parents were not working with Saltire, they were undermining her in front of their child. This relationship was doomed because of that.

Just to clarify, my comments are about the road thing, not saltire's feelings for the child. I'm purely saying that I think in this situation, shouting to get mindee out of the road was the right thing to do. IMO, no time for 'oh be a good mindee and come out of the road please, you'll get a nice treat'!!

MoM - it is an open forum but you are IMO verging into the area where what you are posting could be construed as personal attacks on another poster. Saying you disagree with shouting when caring for children is very different from comments on the standard of care provided by a professional childminder.

It's pretty much what I was trying to say. As a professional standard of care, it's not good enough.

Saltire
I'm afraid I have to say that I expect much MORE tolerance etc from someone who is looking after my child. I mean more than I even have myself.
I know this isn't going to go down well, but I would be really upset if my CM was so obviously irritated by the child. Don't shoot me down for saying this, but we're not talking about getting annoyed with one's own child, which happens in an environment where, hopefully, you love them more than anything in the world. You're the trained person who's paid to be in control all the time.
I've a feeling I might regret saying this - yikes. Sorry, I'm not meaning to get at you, just wanted to present another view.

Saltire - you did the right thing!

OK, I'll bow out on this one then. But I understood this to be an open forum - and that really is my view. I think she was harassed and unable to cope with that child as well as her own. And I don't believe in shouting at young children. I find it hard to believe I'm the only person who sees it that way.

Hi MoM

I can see you point actually but I also believe that this was probably down to a lack of rapport/communication between parents and childminder.

If a child is told to hold on while crossing the road but says her parents told her she doesn't have to - and the parents agree with this, the childminder is left in a very difficult situation. As I can now see from the thread saltire has given notice and I think that was probably the right decision.

I still believe shouting isn't all bad - but maybe that's because it makes me feel so much better when I do - different strokes

Woah MoM - you are now going a bit far.

Maybe I've misread this but I thought that the mindee did hold hands with saltire until the parents decided she was a big girl and didn't need to? If I've read this correctly and am right in thinking the parents have told the mindee it's ok not to hold hands then I agree that they have underminded their childminder! Therefore, it's not a question of saltire being able to cope or not, it's that she has a way of doing things safely and the parents have made it impossible for her with their child!

BTW, I'm a childminder too for those who didn't know. I actually no longer take the older children, just 3 under 5's as I was worried about me coping with them all. Having said that, I have childminder friends who handle their group very calmly and safely which I'm sure saltire does , just wasn't for me.

Well done for giving notice, I think you did the right thing in the circumstances!

MoM - I can't believe you just said that

I didn't say she would be ruined for life. I said it was a poor standard of care. And it isn't the number of children that is the problem, it is this particular lady's inability to control them all at the same time that led to their safely being compromised and shouting being necessary.

Oh dear me The poor child will be ruined for life because someone shouted at her

I come from an Italian family where shouting was (and often still is) par for the course . Sometimes it was in anger sometimes not. The thing was we could always tell the difference. It is just a matter of style.

I think it is important to distinguish between really losing your temper with a child and shout AT them in an agressive way - by that I mean saying things about them in a personal way and shouting in an exasperated way e.g. "Oh for godness sake get a move on will you" sort of thing. They are very different things.

Shouting per se is not necessarily a bad thing. If someone can't hear you you may need to shout. It is more about what you say while you are shouting and the exact tone.

'Get a move on/out of the road etc.' in a loud voice is very different than 'get the f**k out of the road' said in a whisper.' I know which one I'd prefer.

I am sure that Saltire was not using the shouting as a way of being nasty to the child but as a way of getting through to her.

I do think though that a talk with the parents about your rules are in order and if they won't back you re holding the pushchair/hand etc. you maybe should think about giving them notice.
Minding children without good communication with the parents strikes me as almost impossible.

I don't suppose the parents would be happy about you using a wrist strap for her, just for a few days, until she gets the idea?

fret not carla.. about to do the school run.

I think you did the right thing saltire. Also, if the parents are going to undermine you then I think you should let the family go.

Message deleted

The child's safety was compromised because the child stopped in the middle of the road and wouldn't come out. The child's safety was assured when saltire took her out of the road.

Your implication was that too many children caused the safety issue, not mine.

Just to say ...
I don't agree with smacking, and don't smack my own son .......... but.....

One day when he slipped my hand and ran across a busy carpark, nearly getting squished, I did smack him. Because it was a safety issue, because it was necessary to show him that this mattered (and also because I was terrified).

I don't think shouting at this child was OTT. I suspect however that you may have probs with her parents again in the future, if their attitude is as you describe.

I have a suspicion that she won't be with you for long.

Clearly she doesn't know how to make this particular child behave properly! It's ridiculous to suggest that the four-year-old is at fault for not knowing how to behave. As a professional childminder she shouldn't have ended up in a situation in which the children's safety was conpromised. Which it was.

My mother had six children and took us all out safely too. It really isn't the issue.

Ok, but presumably as a childminder, the childminder is capable of knowing how to control the children in her care safely.

I have 5 children, incl 2 in a double buggy. Sometimes the children bring friends home from school for tea. So should I not allow that any more?

If the children know to respect and listen to the parent/minder that they are with then it shouldn't become an issue really.

Have never had a problem getting the kids to walk home with me, mine or otherwise. Oh... and should a child refuse to come out of the road then yes, I would shout. Rather a quick shout from me than a car smacking them upside the head.

OK Fairymum!! Add it to your list of things we want banned!!!

I agree with you MOM. Should we ban it?

Marsonlife - my view is that it isn't practical to take a minded four year old to school with two other little girls, a double buggy and another toddler and expect to be able to cope safely. If I were paying a childminder I wouldn't want those to be her circumstances.