Just been Lectured to by one of my mindees parents! Need to rant

Can I just raise this issue about too many children as it keeps popping up. A childminder doesnt just decide how many children she can take OFSTED actually deem these ratios to be safe. OFSTED come out and assess and inspect. My argument is that if parents are going to say that its too many then the prices per hour per child will need to increase otherwise it would not be worth anyones while financially to be a childminder. Much as most childminders love their jobs they cant do it for free or below the minimum wage!

I think Saltire was shouting to get the child's attention though, which is different to just shouting because you are angry or loosing the plot a bit.
Don't see the relevance of working or not working in terms of shouting and telling your children off Fatcow.

Hi havent read the whole thread, but can see both sides of story. Im a bit of a shouter myself, so i know why u did it. But i do think the parents could be a bit more helpful ie explain to child when your with so and so youneed to hold hands or get a move on when she says. If this fails, you need to consider wether u have 2 many children as shouting isnt the answer and can lead to aggressive behaviour and shouting from the child. Believe me im paying the price with my 3 yr old. I now try to speak more camly rather than shouty Good luck

as a nanny if i child wa sin the orad i would def raise my voice, u did nothing wrong!

em xxx

all these working mums who NEVER shout or tell their children off. usually the children who end up out of control and lacking total respect for everyone....including the parents. wait until they are teenagers..........bet you shout then!

Have not had time to read all the tread, so appols if I am going over old ground. The parents of the child have totaly undermined your authority by telling her that they will take her away from you if you 'Threaten' her again. I think this puts you in an utterly imposibile situation. I agree with the poster who said she would never disagree with the CM in front of the child. If they have issues, they should raise them with you, without the child present.

He behaviour sounds as if they use no dicipline with her at all.

Put these two things together and I feel that you are bettwer without this child.

And FWIW, I hope that I never have to teach her in later life, or if I do, that her parents have insitlled some self control and respect into the child by the time she gets to secondary school..

So a parent must never lose control? I believe this is an unrealistic goal and just another way to beat ourselves up if we fail. Our children will eventually come to see us for who we are as they get older and if we try to hide it from them again we are lying.

If you are genuinely a person who never gets angry then that is fine. I however do get angry about many things. Does that mean I have to think of myself as a bad parent because I get angry about lots of things and occasionally lose my temper with my ds/dh. I don't believe this but then I would say that wouldn't I

I am not a childminder bth. Lucky escape for many children that I'm not!

I don't tend to shout at my children, mainly because they shout back and give me a headache. However, I think Lazycow is making a good point. It's okey for a parent to sometimes "loose it" and get angry and shout. Providing you apologise or explain why afterwards. I think if a child never see their parents angry, arguing with eachother etc, they won't learn how to deal with their own anger and they will think an argument or someone shouts at them is the end of their world.
I would also have shouted if my child was standing in the middle of the road. What I read from this thread is that some childminder IMO look after too many children. It's normal for a child not to behave perfectly all of the time. 4 year-olds are unpredictable and CAN run into the road and they can often live in lala-land as described on this thread. That's why I for one would never look after more children than I could control safely. I often shudder when I see the amount of children the childminders in my area walk to and from school, but obviously it's up to the parents to be okey about this. I am saying this generally speaking and not directed at Saltire, because I think her issue is mainly unreasonable parents. This is also why I don't really grasp the argument about the 1-1 care you get in a childminder situation vs. nursery in those types of debates either. But see, I am making another thread again.......

And an environment with a parent shouting/slapping in anger i.e. when they have lost control is not a calm and safe environment

Lazycow: I want my child to be able to cope with violence when she is older but that doesn't mean I bring it into the home.

The difference between restraining a child to brush their teeth and shouting at them involves control - i.e. whether you have lost it.

Shouting at a child in anger when you have lost control is not great. Slapping a child when you have lost control is not great.

(I'm not commenting on the OPs situation, just commenting on your post)

Maybe you're right lazycow

I just can't see it like that at the moment.

I'm going to stop posting on this thread now - I was asked to explain my view and I've done that.

Sorry can't resist

So if shouting to stop a child hurting themselves is a form of violence (which I believe it sometimes is - just that some violence or anger is not always unacceptable), then why is it not violent for two adults to hold a child's head/hands etc. when they want to brush their teeth, cut their nails?. You could argue that the second is worse as it involves physical restraint yet I don't believe any parent would see it that way.

The point I'm trying to make is that we all draw the line somewhere but we need to be aware that agression is a fact of life in any family.

Agression is the forcing of your will or wants/needs onto another person against their will and we do that to our kids all the time. It's called parenting.

I believe that what children need is to experience anger/agression (theirs and their parents') but in as safe an environment as possible.

i.e - 'I know mummy/daddy get angry sometimes but that is a normal (and I might add sometimes quite healthy) emotion in a difficult world' Also 'I'm not afraid of it because the anger is expressed approriately'

To try and pretend that anger and negative emotions do not exist to our children by never getiing angry or showing only positive emotions is really lying to them. How will they cope in the world when they come up against these emotions in a much less safe environment - i.e other children/adults who get angry etc.

In order to do that though you need not to be scared of anger yourself.

Please note I am not saying children should live in a world of anger and shouting - just that the occasional outburst by parents in my opinion does no more harm than many of the things we do to our kids and in some cases if a appropriate apology and talk follows can do some good.

Sorry missed the post about you having already issued notice. Well done !

Message withdrawn

I did apologise for making it personal. And I meant it. I can't do much more than that.

Mom, I understand completely now why you feel as you do about shouting XXX

The cowardlycow post was me. I changed my name for another thread and forgot to change it back. I'm having a crap day.

The little girl in all this sounds a bit precocious and possibly manipulative, by playing you off against her parents and perhaps not being entirely truthful with either ?! I'd expect my child to get told off if they were endangering themselves or others whilst in another's care. Did you tell them of the incident or did she ? As a parent I would not have liked hearing of this from my 4 yr old first even if you just considered it a minor transgression.

atm it seems as if the whole situation is less than ideal - may be you find her a handful anyway, perhaps she/parents would feel better in an environment with less divided attention - and if the contract is intended to be long term think about either working to an agreement over discipline with the parents or curtailing it. I really don't think the situation will resolve itself.

Because it involves projecting one's anger at another, smaller person in an forceful expression designed to frighten/subdue that person. Having been on the receiving end of a good deal of parental shouting and had ample opportunity to compare it to other forms of violence, I decided it was unnecessary and that I would find other ways of gaining my children's cooperation. I mean shouting at a child IN ANGER, not making one's voice louder in order to be heard above other noise/from a distance etc. There is a big difference IMO.

sorry i know this will cause a stink, but to suggest that saltire cannot cope is ludicrous, they were crossing the road and the child stopped while they were crossing, the child did not wander into the road because saltire wasn't paying enough attention!

speaking from experience, i always used to say that i would never shout at my child, then the magical age of 4 (approx) happened when my child suddenly decided he was a big boy and could do things for himself, like put on his own shoes, do up his coat, cross the road without holding hands/buggy and yes for the majority of the time he seemed perfectly able to do so, but on those days when they are just in one of those moods or daydreaming, every small task becomes impossible and then life is very difficult and sometimes the only way to get there attention when you really need it is to raise your voice.
i really think that this debate has gone too far though, saltire asked for freindly advice re the situation, and i'm sure certainly didn't expect to ahve her proffessional abilities criticised so heavily, as saltire has said she has looked after this child for quite some time and it has only recently been a problem!
on your behalf saltire, i am amazed that someone would think that it was ok to criticise someone so personally and tehn take offence to be questioned. yes it is a freespeaking site, but at the same time surely this is an issue of respect for someone else?

Mom - can you explain why you think shouting/raising one's voice is a form of violence. Just curious that's all.

Plenty of shouting in our house -- funny how a 6 yr old can be very hard of hearing until shouted at