A concerned parent has just come to our door...

thebody you have told me to grow up and dont get personal, but what have you done all through the thread? All I said was what can ofsted prove? I reported a lot more clear cut case than this and nothing was done. The Op should have checked up on the CM before she done anything. Of course the CM wont leave the child outside again now because she knows people are watching if ofsed came round she would put a show on.

Nobody knows if it is true or not you say you would do the same as the OP so why would you take your child out if it has not been proven that the childminder is guilty?

I thought it was a very even thread not everyone was screaming the childminder was guilty.

I for one was very opened minded about the whole thing which most people were.

'to start a new thread to drum up support was over the top' I suppost this was meant for me, i was actually wanting to get the views of other cms and child carers not parents an of course its not about drumming up support here its about discussion, its possible to disagree without becoming personal, grow up.

awful situation for the parent, cm and of course their is a child at the centre of all this.

as a parent I would have acted exactly as the op has, as I am now tired of saying, she had no choice.

as a cm I can understand the horror and devestation i would feel in this position as it must be dreadful as child abuse is the vilist crime there is.

i can understand both sides as a mum and as a cm and expressed them both.

its not one side verses the other.

though I am shocked at the no smoke without fire brigade, but still thats how some people are..

How terrible OP. :(

I used to nanny/childmind/work in a nursery and before I had DS it never occurred to me the absolute trust the parents had to have had in me. Amazing really!

I'll admit I did things I wouldn't have done with the parents around (just laziness-type things) but never EVER would I have treated "my" children like that, of course. That's terrible!

It's so sad for the CM if it's not true but...why would the other parents lie? What a horrible situation, best of luck.

My sons have Just turned 2 & t makes me feel sick to hear that. the best way would have been to follow her & see if its true or maybe even use a friend/family member she didn't know to check up on her. They could have followed her to the playgroup & if it were true revealed themselves & brought your son back home at least you know he would have been safe I hope you got on okay with it & got to the bottom of it.

Gut instinct counts for a lot when you are a parent, be it when a child is ill or trusting who you chose to care for them.

As a parent, i'd rather move my child from a childcare situation if I had any doubts at all and honestly wouldnt give a monkeys about the loss of income it would cause. CM's are self employed so should know that their income can vary at any time.

Ofsted reports are not really worth anything, their visit is known about in advance and its based on purely one day or less in the life of a minder. As with any inspection, people will do everything they can on that day to ensure the highest mark.

I think this is one of the huge advantages of a nursery where there are always other adults present.

What a good post hester, you put that really well. Just reread it all again and there was lots of people with different opinions.

To start a new thread to drum up more support was over the top. I just think any other job you would take the risk but not when it is your child that could be in danger. I can see it from both sides, but as a mother my child would be out of there.

thebody, your intemperate responses are doing your argument no favours. I think this thread has been very balanced and OP seems to have a good head on her shoulders and will no doubt reach the right decision. Nobody has been witchhunting the CM, everyone accepts the allegations may be groundless.

But it is ridiculous to suggest that parents need proof that would stand the test of a court of law before going with their gut instinct. Yes I work in the public sector, and I have many times seen the impact of malicious allegations on blameless individuals. The trouble is that childminders work without many of the inbuilt checks and potential exposure points that others take for granted (having colleagues witnessing what you do, having 'clients' that can say how they feel about their treatment, audit, risk management systems). So we make use of other kinds of evidence - like allegations from other parents. I absolutely do ask people who see my dd out and about with her CM whether she looks happy with her, whether they look like they are enjoying each other. Otherwise there is no way I can have any clue what is going on when I'm not there.

You dismiss the value of 'gut instinct' if it might mean the end of this contract, but seem happy to accept the OP's positive experience and feelings towards this CM.

There are many jobs where personal reputation is all. Childminding is definitely one of them.

I can't say for sure but I DOUBT she'll be suspended as I wasn't and I was accused of VERY serious/illegal things (I'm a CM). I was told on the 2nd (malicious) complaint that I was category (?) which was 1 step away from being suspended. What your CM is accused of is a lot less serious and therefore I'd be surprised if she was suspended.

I do feel for you OP. I was very lucky that ALL my families backed me up 100% and some used the words 'we won't let you quit' (I just couldn't handle the level of accusations and really wanted to quit but these lovely parents helped pick me up!). Thing is, they absolutely knew without a doubt that I would never have done these things (in fact the 2nd complaint they just laughed at the level of illegal activities I was accused of!) but if you have any doubt in your mind then you have to follow that as children are too important to risk!

I know just how disgusting and horrible people can be with malicious complaints and if this is what has happened to the OP's childminder then I really really feel for her as this was one of the worst times of my life (I think for me the worst part was not actually knowing who was doing this to me!) but it's made me a stronger person! I'm torn because if the CM isn't guilty then her reputation will very likely be ruined by gossip and you can't recover from stuff like that (they'll always be people who'll think she's guilty even if she isn't) but as a mother, unless I knew without a doubt (i.e. my families children talk happily about me in their homes, run to me with big hugs, don't want to go home at pickup etc. so they knew they were fine), I'd have to do what I think is right for my children. And I'm a person who believes a lot in gut feeling!

Do let us know what the outcome is won't you.

Depends on the category of the complaint. See CIE Handbook in particular the file titled: Receiving and categorising concerns about compliance.doc

Depending on the category, the childminder may be immediately suspended whilst it is investigated.

Unless they suspend her she should and can carry on as usual.

thesoo any update?

What a horrid situation to be in where you don't know who or what to trust.

Personally I would never have confronted her until I had either spied myself or asked someone else to spy. Now it is her word against someone elses.

I used to go to a playgroup where certain parents and childminders ignored their children and were completely absorbed in chatting.

Where I am there are cm cliques, the cms either belong in group X, Y or Z. If your child is with a childminder in group X and you wish to change cm, no one else in group X will take your child on because they don't want to upset their friend. This has been texted so I have seen it with my own eyes. But a cm in group Y will happily take your child

Just as people parent differently, cms also look after children differently. What may be acceptable to one may be totally unacceptable to another. Maybe the cm who was confronted by your own cm is very shy and doesn't like confrontation. After all it wasn't her who saw the incident, she is merely caught in the middle.

Agree with you SSD your chikldren are the most important thing in the world. Also if the poor childminder is innocent she will still get work there is a post on the other thread where the childminder got accused and all her mindees stuck up for her. You have got 100% trust who is looking after your DC not 99%. There is good and bad in all jobs just because I am a nanny I do not think everyone I meet who is a nanny is brilliant. Some childminders do it as a career and some do it for extra money.

and again wannabe's right is saying any allecation against a child minder would worry a parent even if it was proved to be totally wrong

any parent leaving their kids with a childminder needs to be totally sure they can trust them and any whiff of an allegation would make them doubt that trust, even if the whiff was wrong

its too emotional a subject just to let your head rule your heart

I agree with wannabe's post further up that said many childminders do the job as it fits in with their kids and not because they genuinely want to spend all day with someone elses children, thats true from my own observations over the years, both at the school gates and as a childminder myself.

the poster called paulamummyknowsbest sounds fantastic, but I really feel most childminders arent at all like her, she seems one in a million to me and her parents who use her are very lucky.

But let's be honest thebody, if someone made an allegation against you, and the parent concerned removed their child pending investigation, went to ofsted to report you etc, even if the allegations were found to be untrue, you couldn't possibly go back to how things were before because that trust will already have been broken. Even if the parent then apologised and said "oh I'm sorry, I realize that the incident never happened, dd will start back on Monday," you surely would always have in the background that the parent removed their child pending investigation by ofsted, and the parent would always have in the back of their mind that someone was sufficiently concerned to inform them/the regulators of your alleged conduct. It would put a questionmark over the whole relationship, surely even you can see that.

In answer to your question and I am a nanny, not a SAHM or work for the public secter. What difference does this make to anything? I know loads of childminders and nannies some are good and some are bad. Sorry if the childminder is innocent but I would put my child first.

Wannabe I am watched by parents every school run, I have no problems with this, i have parents picking up at all tiems, I have no problems with this, as a cm you are always being judged, thats fine.

you are basically saying here that it doesnt matter what the cm says or how long you have worked together, how happy your child seems in her care, if a complete stranger knocks on your door and makes lots of allegations against her, and they are eventually seen as UNPROVEN then you would still remove your child.

pathetic

I'm all for not taking your gut feeling as gospel but you have to have something to go on.

Just because you know someone doesn't mean they are incapable of wrongdoing. And you have to question why someone would want to make a malicious complaint for no good reason.

And what evidence? Ofsted come, they take statements from the cm, the parent making the complaint and it is the cm's word against the parent's. Presumably none of the childminders on this thread would be open to the idea of being watched covertly by ofsted or similar such body? so how are they supposed to gain accurate evidence? The truth is that it's impossible, so if all you ahve to go on is your gut feeling then you have to go with that.

If a complete stranger came to my door and told me what they'd witnessed then there would be doubts in my mind, no matter how much I trusted my CM. Just because you know someone well doesn't mean they aren't capable of pulling the wool over your eyes.

Evidence? How do you propose getting that then - putting the child back into the situation that you've been warned about and sticking a camera up or hiding behind a bush?

References - they can't always be relied on. This childminder could have done similar before and the parents didn't know, or their standards could have slipped massively.

Common sense - what, like ignoring these serious allegations and putting your child back there regardless?

A gut feeling is never to be ignored, ever. You can't always drive by the CMs house in the rain, nor should you have to - indeed, you wouldn't even think it a possibility that someone might leave a child out in the rain...

gut feelings are dangerous, they can lead you into dangerous relationships as adults and children. i have had parents engage me over the phoen with a gut feeling that I am nice, i am but thatn not the point.

evidence, references and commen sense every time for me in life.

children much to precious to leave to gut feelings..

Ignoring your gut feeling about a childcare provider is wrong imo, and letting your child down.

its not just income though is it? its about the childs welfare and happyness, trust, fairness, a relationship and commen sense.

my newest mindee has been with me for 2 years, the others far longer.

i would hope that one of my parents would know me enough and trust me enough to take my word and tell the complete stranger to bog off and see this as malicious gossip.

but acting as a mum I would pehaps call on cm a bit earlier to check all ok or drive by the nursery to make sure child isnt outside crying in the rain, thats sensible, and parents do that all the time, especially in the early days of care, no problem with that

but totally ignoring years of good service and smashing care, ignoring any outcome Ofsted might come to as I had a 'gut feeling' is dispicable in my opinion.

They did talk to her - well, her dh did

"DH has been round to both the CM and the concerned parents houses. CM denies everything completely, seemed genuinely shocked and upset. Concerned parents sticking to story and aghast at CM denial. Concerned parents chidlminder has also witnessed ds being left out, and left to cry.
Both sides seem equally credible/believable! The concerned parents will be lodging a complaint tomorrow.
I have spoken to another childminder, who backs up our childminder and thinks it is all nonsense.
No further forward. Have a solution for not sending kids this week which gives us a bit of time. Not sure beyond that. Just really want it to be not true."

I pity both the parents and CM, but unfortunately in this case my child's safety would come before a CM's income.

totally agree with rosie, she puts it in a nut shell.