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giving a warning - do things ever work out after this?

41 replies

FootballFriendSays · 28/09/2011 21:52

I'm thinking of giving a first and final warning to our live in nanny. She's been with us for 6 weeks. Do things ever improve after a warning or is this just going through the motions for both parties and we should both start looking for someone new?

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fraktious · 21/10/2011 06:12

I would also PILON.

And whilst maturity, calmness and quietness are good things, initiative and enthusiasm are qualities which are just as important!

starfishmummy · 20/10/2011 23:31

Personally i would pay her a months wages but tell her to go straight away, and get your mum to help you.
If she was not doing the job properly when it was potentially long term she isn't going to do it properly now...

FootballFriendSays · 20/10/2011 23:00

Quick update - tonight I told the nanny it's not working and gave her notice, to leave in another month. I'm upset but things have really not improved in terms of rapport between her and the children or interest towards the job (my children!) or energy or keenness. No big ones, just small things that irk (like DD1 being late on her second day at new school due to bad planning by nanny, although we had done the route together by bus on the first day, twice). DH is supportive of my decision.

I think it will make for an awkward month but I should put my DC's interests of being stimulated and someone else taking an interest in their lives before my convenience of finding another nanny as quiet, clean, mature etc as this one.

Thanks all, it helped to have feedback. (And I never once mentioned the flowerpot.)

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sunshinenanny · 08/10/2011 22:40

This nanny doesn't sound as if she takes her job very seriously. Did you check her references, is she very experienced, A good nanny is always aware that she is responsible for the welfare of her/his charges and going in a locked room is not good practice.

FootballFriendSays · 04/10/2011 22:27

Just a quick one to say thanks for all replies. We've just moved house this w/end so no internet connection. No substantial improvement, no energy or interest, despite being 'watched' and knowing she's on a warning. DH is at home this week and now he is not impressed either. I'll keep you posted, i have a bit of email etc catching up to do. Thanks for your thoughts, I know we can do better.

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Knackeredmother · 04/10/2011 22:05

Arthur, I'm very intrigued and nosy as to what the nanny did to get sacked?

ArthurMcAffertyhastwocats · 04/10/2011 10:18

A friend had broadly similar concerns about her nanny, who she strongly suspected wasn't paying close enough attention to her three dcs when she was in charge. There were various good reasons to be concerned, but no real hard evidence. She had a serious chats, and decided to see how things went. And then two weeks later, the nanny did something so mind bogglingly stupid and dangerous in terms of the children that they were lucky to have come out of it alive. She was sacked on the spot. The moral, as we agreed afterwards, was to trust your gut instincts.

Clearly you can't go round sacking people on a whim, but when you have only employed someone for a short time (and six weeks is a short time) you can dismiss someone much more easily under the law than you can further down the line, and there's a good reason for that. Personally I wouldn't be happy, and if I thought that I could manage in the short term without help, I would sit her down and say that I didn't think it was working out, pay her notice and ask her to go.

StillSquiffy · 30/09/2011 23:07

To be blunt... she's a lost cause. Get rid.

banana87 · 30/09/2011 21:58

You don't grab a child by the neck--ever. It's basic. For that reason, and not looking after your DC as she should, I would let her go. No idea if you are actually legally allowed to, but given she is in her probationary period I can't see why you can't give her a week notice to vacate (and no notice in regards to her job, do not leave her with your DC alone again).

breatheslowly · 30/09/2011 21:58

I think you know where this is going so you may as well get on with it. Have you contacted agencies to look for a replacement (or what ever you do to get a nanny)? Did you pay an agency fee for her and can you complain to the agency if you did?

Blondeshavemorefun · 30/09/2011 21:50

watching tv in her room with door closed while MEANT to be looking after your dc is a big no no

red marks - hmmmmmmmmmmmm grabbing a neck Hmm dodgy - having arm yanked i can understand but no neck :(

plants - im crap at watering and all mine are dead - 'looks mournfully on window sill'

maybe she was dead heading - a term i use from my dh and bf, though have never done it Grin

and you have only had her 6 weeks, if she said sorry about the tv etc then maybe give her another chance, but seems she isnt bothered/concerned about it - too many warning bells for me personally

kelly2000 · 30/09/2011 15:58

I think the neck grabbing thing is dodgy. I know children can sometimes ignore people when it comes to that sort of thing, but it would be more normal to grab at their clothes.
I would have a good chat with DC to see what happened. I think it is important that you believe your children over the new nanny, as they always need to feel they can tell their parents things.
To be honest why take the risk, you know she leaves them on their own most days (why can't she just read a magazine or watch simpsons with them and have a cup of tea) you are worried about the neck thing, keeping her will just worry you.

MGMidget · 30/09/2011 10:44

I agree with fraktious. Also if your nanny has only worked for you for 6 weeks the three step warning procedure is not important as she is not in a position to take you to a tribunal for unfair dismissal. You can just give her notice and say it isn't working - you don't need to justify the decision or go through all the warning stages. I wouldn't put up with that - most nannies would be on their best behaviour and eager to impress in the early stages of their job, even if they slack off later.

redglow · 30/09/2011 10:43

I think the neck grabbIng thing does not sound right. Like fraktoius my gut reaction is no. If she was working and they were watching tv why wasnT she not with them?

fraktious · 30/09/2011 10:12

Sorry but my gut is screaming nonono.

I would be livid at any of that and as for grabbing by the neck?! That's not on at all, there are plenty of other places to grab. The lack of supervision, communication and care means is I'd just give the notice in the contract and say it's not working. There are other much better nannies out there.

FootballFriendSays · 29/09/2011 23:26

Breathe - a probation till Xmas and then definite till September if things go well. Just now I can't see us making it till Halloween. And thanks for giving me perspective - I would expect children to be engaged with or at least supervised and accidents to be notified. (Nursery staff phoned DH - she had fallen off v close to nursery so must have been quite shaken - DH phoned me, I was on a course 2.5 hours away. I phoned the nanny to ask what had happened and to assess whether to come home immediately.)

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FootballFriendSays · 29/09/2011 23:20

Pigfarts - thanks for your thoughts on this and taking the time to hold my hand over it. I felt the same about the nanny not telling me about the marks. She had the story ready but she didn't volunteer it. It was nearly 24 hours later when I asked her directly. She didn't say yesterday DD2 didn't listen to her or hold her hand or ask what to do about crossing the road etc. That's what worries me, didn't she see it as a big deal? We're moving house this weekend and all bedrooms will be on the first floor. I need to know she's with the DCs at all times or within easy hearing distance. And OK, I'll let the plants issue go. I've killed plenty myself, although not chopped the evidence off.

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breatheslowly · 29/09/2011 23:18

In terms of fairness, it is fair on your children to be well cared for. Think about the standards you would expect from a nursery - I would expect the staff to be engaged with the children at all times (except when filling in admin forms) and for all accidents to be notified to me on handover. While you wouldn't expect tired children to be engaged with at all times - a bit of TV in line with your instructions is fine, leaving them isn't. It's a great idea to sleep on it - you will have a sense of what is right when you wake up. Are you in a probationary period at all?

FootballFriendSays · 29/09/2011 23:08

I spoke to my Mum tonight, she can come and help, I just need to let her know when. I'm saddened because we've been struggling with childcare and I had thought we'd finally got it right until next September when all will be in full-time school. Mum is v good with the DCs but not ideal solution (nagging me, spoiling them etc). I'll sleep on it some more but things would need to improve drastically. I feel guilty for putting feelings of 'fairness' above what seems the right thing to do for my kids. DH is at home next week, he can keep an eye on things.

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PigfartsPigfartsHereICome · 29/09/2011 22:59

Ok about the plants may I just say... I grew up in a house with a few fake plants, I really didn't know you had to water real plants! Stupid maybe but I never gave it a thought.

I think that even if the bedroom is on the ground floor, closing the door is just unproffesional. I view tv watching as a neccesary evil- 3yo is very tired and grumpy after a full day at school and needs 'passive' entertainment rather than drawing etc. But I use it only when I need to get stuff done or focus on the baby, who eats earlier than 3yo. I don't think this would be a final notice issue, unless you had children under 3, however it should definitely be raised.

When viewed with the final issue raised- thats maybe a final warning issue. Not so much the grabbing as sometimes safety is more important than how you ensure the safety, if I see 3yo heading into traffic I will grab her no mictake. However not telling you herself is terrible, either at the time with a quick text if appropriete or during handover. And as a live-in, there is even more time for her to have told you. I would have spoken to boss about it as soon as possible, not only to inform them of the two issues of a child heading into the road and my grabbing them, which probably upset them and hurt them, but also to cover myself in case marks did show or child brought it up. And presumably parent/carer of the friend over the road saw, what if they informed the parents?

Definitely needs a sit down, a good chat with no interuptions especially children. Have tissues to hand! Conversations like this will be emotional. Is there a three step dismissal and warnings clause in the contract? Its up to you if this constitutes a final warning issue, however you have to live with this person as well as entrust your children to her.... I do usually fall on the side of the nanny as thats my perspective but in this case I think you need to go with your instincts, if you can't trust her it may be time to reconsider the arrangement.

breatheslowly · 29/09/2011 22:43

I'd be gutted. I think you need to consider your backup childcare plans as it seems unlikely that this nanny is going to stay much longer - partly because you have lost confidence in her. If you can get your backup plan sorted then you will feel stronger about dealing with any more issues that come up.

FootballFriendSays · 29/09/2011 22:28

I did say it was wrong, that it was the only warning I was going to give her, that she should look after the children at all times.

Yesterday before lunch DD2 had a scooter accident. I was 70 miles away and worried. I thought ok, accidents happen etc. Then I come home to this. Dd2 also had some marks on her neck which I assumed were from the accident. Today they were better defined so I asked her what happened. She said X had pulled her by the neck. Dd2 is only 4. That's when I decided I had to discuss the whole thing with X. So I started by saying I had noticed these marks and this is what Dd2 had said. She immediately said 'no, let me tell you what happened. DD2 wanted to cross the road to see a friend on the other pavement on the way to nursery. I had to stop her by grabbing her by the neck.' Then I went into her not looking after them all in the afternoon. Just too much in one day and i'm too upset.

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FootballFriendSays · 29/09/2011 22:22

I don't expect her to water the plants in the rest of the house, but in her own bedroom? That I don't go into because she keeps her door shut? I expect her to keep that room reasonable clean. I agree with you, however, that I didn't deal with this well at all.

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breatheslowly · 29/09/2011 22:15

I wouldn't expect her to water plants if they are yours and you haven't given her instructions (having killed loads of my own plants). However as a metaphor for her caring skills it doesn't look good. Is she too calm? It doesn't sound like you really dealt with the issue - I'm not clear whether you have let her know how inappropriate it was and that it mustn't happen again. Did you introduce the handbook? I think I would have - just to say "we seem to have different expectations, so I thought we could go through this together to ensure that there are no further misconceptions about the work/care I expect you to do. If you really thinks that she sees you as an idiot you need to stamp it out now.

FootballFriendSays · 29/09/2011 21:58

Let me mention I've been noticing the plants on her windowsill (room on ground floor) getting increasingly parched. Today she chopped off the geraniums as they must have been quite dead. She didn't even lift a finger to water her plants in the 6 weeks she's been here. I feel petty to mention this (and haven't done so with her).

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