opinion on this please

I AM my own boss, I am a Childminder and parents constantly move the goal posts with their needs, all part of the job.

helendee the mum obv wants to help keep her older 3 children in their normal routine and not to disrupt their lives too much with baby no 4

many employers do keep their nanny on while on ml - if they can afford it

im sure if your boss said right go away for 4/6mths without pay then i want you back again, you would tell them to stuff their job and look for a new one

2 of mine have screamed in the early evening - its quite a usual stage.
I don't think the parents are being unreasonable at all, she's being paid to babysit two nights and week, the only difference now is that she has to do a bit more.

Blimey, do some mothers ever look after their own children? Why does she need a nanny if she is home on maternity leave anyway?

woahthere- I didnt say that it wasnt different.I said she has 2 nights babysitting included in her contract-which usually means whole evening.Its just a bonus if the children sleep well and you dont have to do any more than put them to bed. This phase of the baby crying is a hard one but its a phase at some point the baby will sleep like the others in most cases-if the family increase the money now for the babysits will your friend then take a pay cut when the baby sleeps through?
Believe me I have been there with my nb charges but its a phase and its what we are paid for.She is paid for 2 nights babysitting.

I think the family are being unreasonable, unless they leave the nanny with some means of feeding the baby that works (no point leaving a bottle if the baby won't take it), and they can work out how to get all four of the kids to bed - not easy.

My little one always cluster-fed in the evenings, the milk supply is low then anyway, and screamed the house down on the few occasions I went out until she was much bigger. But I have known people who have said that it's tough and the baby needs to be in a routine, settle self blah blah. Horrible IMO.

How is the nanny supposed to deal with the other 3 kids when the baby is screaming? I don't think she should have to look after 3DC in the day then deal with a screaming baby two evenings a week.

I guess it comes down to whether your friend is willing to risk her position. If she's been there a long time and the family are happy with her, then she may be in a strong position to chance it and say no.

surpriseme looking after an 8 week old baby is a hell of a lot different than looking after older children, I dont know how you can think its not!

As they are a live in nanny, they are I presume paid an annual salary on top of having acomodation provided. So why different rates for different things? Caring for a baby during the day and during the evening can be very much the same job. A nanny caring for a baby during the day can have times when that baby is asleep. A nanny caring for a baby in the evening can have times when that baby is awake. That's the way it goes.

When baby gets older they will probably sleep more in the evening. This phase does not usually last forever, it will get easier. So if more pay is wanted now, will less pay be wanted later?

I do think it is unreasonable to expect her to babysit the baby - I think she should renegotiate the contract. Things have changed quite dramatically from when she initially agreed the contract.

She has 2 nights babysitting in the contract so really they arent asking any more of her. Its not like the contract just required her to work an extra hour twice a wk and now its 3hrs,the whole evening twice a wk would of been included in it.
Where I think the parents are wrong is not providing a bottle.I understand they want to exclusively bf but they cant have their cake and eat it really.They either need to stay in/take baby out until baby can go longer stretches or provide a bottle

i cant believe they are just going out and leaving her to deal with it, what selfish people, how could you leave your baby when it is so young and exclusively breastfed. At 8 weeks old babies feed almost constantly and are so whingey in the evening, especially if colicky. I think your friend should definately say that she doesnt think this was part of the deal and that their baby is unhappy and so is she. If they dont agree I would find someone who did appreciate me as they obviously dont give a shit.

My contract always stated X and subsequent children. I would not expect my other duties to decrease with the arrival of a new baby but I would expect my employers to be understanding if I'd had a hectic day and hadn't got all the ironing done for example. I also wouldn't expect a payrise although I had annual payrises written into my contracts.

Your friends needs to sit down and discuss the issue with her employers and perhaps suggest methods of helping the baby through this 'witching hour'. Colief is great for colic, baby massage? Does the baby have a dummy or could she use one to help calm the baby whilst the mother is out?

My two children were very cranky from 7-10pm in the early weeks. I became adept at eating my food whilst bouncing baby in the bouncer with one foot. Not ideal but you do what you have too.

Whether you need to renegotiate the contract will depend on whether the contract already included subsequent children.

Another who thought colic, my eldest was like this, you feel awful when you cant comfort your own baby because he appears to be in pain, let alone someone elses!

I take it she/mum has tried the usual remedies, Infacol is that still around? Not that it appeared to work for Ds1.

I think it is pretty standard for babies to have a witching hour(s) especially in the evening and 7-9pm sounds very normal! We vaguely followed the feeding / sleeping times of GF but I remember the 7-9pm period being one where I kept nipping upstairs to BF, jostle, sing etc. to try and get the babe to sleep.

We now have a second baby and from 8 weeks, very occasionally nipped round the corner for a bite to eat leaving our lovely nanny in charge. She understood that in this case, babysitting was going to be quite a full on task but at no point did she grumble. We didn't leave her for hours and it certainly wasn't twice a week, but i'd have been shocked if she'd asked for extra pay. 2 nights babysitting is standard and sometimes it doesn't interrupt your evening as a live-in nanny and sometimes you're required to do some active babysitting. That said, we'd always be sensitive to the fact our nanny would be busy during the day with DS1 and would need her sleep. I also made sure that when I was on maternity leave, she had a good chance to spend time with the baby so she felt entirely comfortable and got to know her.

I'd also add the whole point of having a nanny is that you don't have to renegotiate the contract when a new babe comes along. As others have said, it is per household. That said, as an employer, i'd probably give a pay rise.

My nanny's contract, and mine when I nannied, all say 'X and any subsequent children' so a payrise isn't on the table.

It depends what they're doing IMO. If it's a regular commitment (bible study, orchestra, etc) then surely nanny would have realised she would need to include baby in the babysit from fairly early on? If she isn't BU about it she's certainly naive. Maybe 6 weeks is a bit young but it's unlikely to have made a real difference before 3 months.

That said I will always leave milk (DS feeds roughly 3 hourly now but even if I'm just going put for an hour I leave a bottle) and at that age I was pinned to the bed/sofa with him feeding one side then the other between 7.30 and 10 or so. They ABVU not to leave milk.

Mine never went 3 hours when they were breast fed. I was doing 2 hourly feeds until they were 6 months old at least.

can tell you've never had to actually deal with any sleep issues, tbh. lucky you. settling a child who is truly scared of the dark can be harder than settling a screaming baby, ime.

I cannot believe she did not talk to her bosses re: babycare (mind you, I can't believe they didn't talk to her either, I guess).

she is not being expected to do more work. she is paid for babysitting - that is what she is doing. if she had had her babysitting nights increased to 3 per week - that is more work.

I think you have the problem in a nutshell when you say the problem is "her evenings being consumed" - but she needs to get over that, tbh. it is what she is employed to do.

If she was being left with the baby all night, then I would also understand the being too tired to care for the other children issue, too. but she isn't. the parents are back by 10 - so she is getting a full night's sleep, and should be well able to perform her duties the following day.

I do not agree re: payrise either, necessarily. or re-working of duties. if/when I have a third child my nanny will not get an instant payrise, nor a reduction in duties (aside from maternity leave, when there would be a shared care element). I will also make use of the babysitting evenings, although probably not twice a week, but that is personal choice.

my 2 (admittedly not a great sample size ) were both going about 3 hrs ebf at 8 weeks. but not at that time in the evening - they both cluster fed, and would not settle at all between 7 and 9.

most of the babies i have had have gone 3hrs ebf and 4hrs if bottle at 8 weeks old - but thats not the point :)

the constant screaming means babs is unhappy/in pain rather then hungry and this needs to be sorted

um, she has had a fair few months to anticipate this, though, surely?

has she not ever spoken about it before?

babies cry. it's what they do. quite a lot, sometimes.

It's not like she has suddenly come down to work one morning and - surprise! there's a baby! - she should have been thinking this through before now.

The babysitting thing is a real red herring though. anything could have happened over the last 5 years to interrupt her peaceful evenings - one of the children could have developed a fear of the dark, or sleepwalking, or anything - would she have wanted extra pay then?

it is a sudden increase in duties, but then the addition of another baby was always going to be that, wasn't it, at some point? once the MB goes back to work, there will be an additional child to look after all day too - quite an increase in work, and there need not necessarily be an increase in pay - nannies are paid per household, not per child.

It sounds to me like your friend is not comfortable with babies, tbh (aside from the milk issue - that does need sorting), and that is something she needs to work out.

I had a maternity nanny when my 2 were born, and when dc2 came along, it was the nannies job to (share) care for dc1 all day, and then dh and I would occasionally go out in the evening and she looked after dc2 - then about 6 weeks old, I suppose, so grumpy, fractious etc (milk was available). that's life, really.

It will not last forever - the baby will grow and settle into a routine. but i do think she is being unreasonable to think that the babies parents should not be having nights out, and she should certainly not view the babysitting as unpaid.

Your friend is NBU because the new child is not in the contract. Also like so many have said the mother needs to leave EBM if she is going out. At 8 weeks it is quite often nowhere near 3 hourly feeding - mine never did that and dd2 was fed bm until 6months, we never got beyond 2 hourly and 1.5 during growth spurts! It is unfair imo on the baby and the nanny