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Original poster

What are your thoughts on other people employing your nanny (or if you are a nanny, getting other work)?

35 replies

Foxinsocks · 16/09/2011 08:28

We employ our nanny for 4 days a week with an option to use the other day. She is paid well above the average salary. Both our children are at school but we pay her for a full day as we need her to cover holidays and sickness. Both my husband and I have very full time jobs with travel etc. She's a live out nanny. So although she is paid for a full day, theoretically, on a school day, she wouldn't need to turn up till after school (dh drops them off with the option of asking her to do it if he needs to leave earlier).

She's pregnant at the moment and had seemed very tired but I put it down to the pregnancy. Then I bumped into another mother in the class who told me she had 'employed' our nanny to cover a few mornings a week while she is doing teacher training. The nanny has to be at their house by 7am, gets her child ready for school, then drops him off at school. It just so happens that luckily dh hasn't needed her in the morning for a while otherwise I'm not sure what she would do on these days (I guess bring this child to our house!).

Dh is about to go away for a month and she asked me (before i knew this) exactly what hours she needed to cover (all the hours would be the hours we had contracted her for) which I thought was unusual given that she is paid to work these hours anyway but I now see why she was asking fgs.

Another mother also texted me for her numbers a few weeks ago and it appears as though she is just filling her time working for other people who I bet aren't paying her properly either (I pay her with PAYE/NI etc. but I can guarantee the others are doing cash in hand otherwise I would know about it!).

What are your thoughts....

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surpriseme · 17/09/2011 21:51

I think its the fact she hasnt been honest thats the worst bit.And those that say that as you dont need her at this time its up to her and they dont see a problem with it-actually since you are paying her full pay I dont think its totally up to her
I am a nanny and did have a job with school agers once(though there the children always came back for lunch for 2hrs before going back to school for the last 1h30mins of the day so its not quite the same as here where they are gone the whole school day) I was paid fulltime but mb was happy for me to work elsewhere as long as I was immediately available should she need me to be or because the child was sick. I got a part time job for 2/3 mornings a wk but I still made sure all nursery duties etc were done in the remaining time I had free while kids were at school

Original poster
Foxinsocks · 17/09/2011 20:34

(meant everyone with dcs)

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Original poster
Foxinsocks · 17/09/2011 20:33

Ps thanks for all your thoughts. Useful to muse over this. Everyone I work with has a SAHP so they don't really get it!

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Original poster
Foxinsocks · 17/09/2011 20:32

Hi, no she doesn't qualify for SMP as she hasnt worked for me long enough. Tbh I don't think she really understood the implications of this till I gave her her SMP1 form (this qualifies her for maternity allowance). I am an expert on pregnant nannies. This is my 3rd Wink. I don't know how as my children are contraceptive enough for me Wink.

Yes as mrachovy knows, I'm an accountant which is why I thought of the tax!

I start interviewing replacements next week (argh!) - I'm nowhere near Essex sadly (sorry on phone, can't scroll up and get the name of the lady who kindly offered her services!). I find it easier to do it later in the day - less chance of being let down at the last minute!

Sigh. Childcare is an enormous hassle sometimes.

OP posts:
fraktious · 17/09/2011 15:11

I mentioned SMP. I half wondered whether, if it were above board, nanny thought she'd be getting more by taking on another job. She wouldn't but she might not know that.

ChitChattingWithKids · 17/09/2011 14:31

No, she didn't, it was MrA who mentioned the SMP which is why I brought it up.

Also on the DirectGov website says that employers are obliged to protect pregnant employees from harm from numerous factors including long working hours.

Also, if her pregnancy suffers and she needs extra antenatal care the OP is the one who has to give paid time off work, even if the illness has been caused by the other work. And I don't think she can even require her to make those appointments during times when she is not actually needed at work so if it is a 4pm appointment then the nanny is entitled to take the time off as paid and the OP has to make alternative arrangements for her DC to be collected.

nbee84 · 17/09/2011 14:07

And reading back Fox hasn't made any mention of paying smp, only that nanny is taking maternity leave.

nbee84 · 17/09/2011 14:05

Sorry, you're quite right. I read the page about maternity leave;

*Entitlement to Statutory Maternity Leave
As an employee you have the right to 26 weeks of Ordinary Maternity Leave and 26 weeks of Additional Maternity Leave making one year in total. The combined 52 weeks is known as Statutory Maternity Leave.

To qualify for Statutory Maternity Leave you must be an employee. If you are an employee and you give your employer the correct notice, you can take Statutory Maternity Leave no matter:

how long you have been with your employer

how many hours you work

how much you are paid*

So, from that I think Fox has to let her nanny take maternity leave and hold the job open for her, but does not have to pay her SMP

Blondeshavemorefun · 17/09/2011 13:43

i assumed she would get the other smp - where same amount each week but not 6 weeks at 90% of her salary as was already preg when started

ChitChattingWithKids · 17/09/2011 12:55

And if Op pays the SMP and the nanny isn't entitled to it, then quite likely Op will not be able to reclaim the SMP payments from HMRC.

ChitChattingWithKids · 17/09/2011 12:53

nbee84 - this is from the Directgov website:

"Who can get SMP?

To qualify for SMP you must have been:

?employed by the same employer continuously for at least 26 weeks into the 15th week before the week your baby is due (the qualifying week)
?earning on average an amount which at least equals the lower earnings limit which applies on the Saturday at the end of your qualifying week"

"What happens if you can't get SMP?

If you cannot get SMP your employer must fill in form SMP1 and give this to you. On the form, your employer must say why SMP has not been paid. If you have more than one employer, you must get form SMP1 from each employer.

Form SMP1 is used to support a claim for Maternity Allowance (MA). "

I really don't believe she is entitled to SMP.

nbee84 · 17/09/2011 12:29

Chitchat - I thought that too, but it seems the rules on smp have changed. It now does not matter how long you have been in a job as long as you notify your employer 15 weeks before the baby is due, you are enttled to maternity leave. Payments of smp depend on if you have paid enough ni (can't remember how many weeks) but it doesn't all have to be with this employer.

ChitChattingWithKids · 17/09/2011 12:04

If she was pregnant when she took the job, she's not entitled to SMP is she????

mranchovy · 17/09/2011 11:49

And for what its worth, this is at the very least irresoponsible and disrespectful of her, and (although it depends on what your contract says) probably a breach of contract, perhaps sufficient to warrant dismissal without notice.

Silly girl, I'd go easy on her given her situation but I would certainly let her know how unhappy I felt about what she has done, and reinforced that it must not happen again without discussing it with me first. I'd also point out that if she takes on any other employment while I am paying her SMP, she must tell me and her SMP will stop.

mranchovy · 17/09/2011 11:42

Oops, I meant to quote that - try again:

"Am also concerned about tax implications as really if this is a permanent relationship with the other family then she has 2 jobs officially."

As long as you are contracted to pay a gross salary (not net) there won't be any tax implications. Even if you have a net salary, the set of circumstances that could lead to a problem are very limited.

mranchovy · 17/09/2011 11:41

Am also concerned about tax implications as really if this is a permanent relationship with the other family then she has 2 jobs officially.

As long as you are contracted to pay a gross salary (not net) there won't be any tax implications. Even if you have a net salary, the set of circumstances that could lead to a problem are very limited.

Lutetia · 17/09/2011 09:05

Hi, I somehow came across your posts this morning, and wanted to ask if you have yet found a replacement?

I have just very recently returned from working as a Nanny in Paris for the past three years and am now looking to find a nice family again, here in Essex. I have excellent references from the families I worked for.

By the way, I think at the very least she should have cleared it with you first especially as she is contractually bound AND paid by you for those hours.

fraktious · 17/09/2011 08:57

I would mention it as she's getting paid twice and it might affect the amount of tax you need to deduct. I hope she isn't doing this so she can claim 2 lots of SMP.

The working whilst on call wouldn't necessarily bother me but the tiredness and secrecy would.

Original poster
Foxinsocks · 17/09/2011 07:35

I know, I have got grounds but she is naive rather than malicious if that makes sense - she definitely loves the kids - and it's her first baby too. I think she's made a mistake as much as anything else but she's so close to going off, I'm going to let her just go and have the baby and we can discuss everything when/if she confirms her return.

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TheBride · 17/09/2011 06:43

Tbh, I'd sack her now if you've got grounds. Then you can get someone else permanent instead of having to wait for her to decide when she's coming back.

Original poster
Foxinsocks · 17/09/2011 06:34

Am also concerned about tax implications as really if this is a permanent relationship with the other family then she has 2 jobs officially.

Anyway she is off soon. We will see if she comes back. She says she does but things change when you have a baby.

If she does want to come back, I will renegotiate her contract anyway as I suspect she'll want to bring the baby to work so I will lay cards on the table then.

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Original poster
Foxinsocks · 17/09/2011 06:31

Thanks

She does have nursery duties but I don't dictate when they are done iyswim. So as long as by the end of the week, it's all done I am not particularly bothered if it's all done on one day or spread over a few

I feel she's taking the piss too. She also took the job when she was 14 weeks pregnant without telling me. I know by law she didn't have to but now she is about to go off on maternity leave and I am really struggling to find cover and it means the kids have yet another person to get used to (last nanny had her 2nd baby only in may and left us permanently to be a full time mum so it's been 3 nannies for the kids in one year).

It's in the contract, I could easily sack her over it but I'm not going to. She is off on maternity leave soon so we will see what happens.... I was fuming when I found out as the early mornings are making her knackered and she didn't tell me either! Argh

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Blondeshavemorefun · 16/09/2011 23:05

agree as long as she is available and ready to work for you then not a problem

though wouldnt have hurt to mention it to you

i dont have that clause in my contract - refused to have it - but dont know why really, as have never worked for anyone else during working hours so not a problem iyswim

IthinkIamUndecided · 16/09/2011 21:51

She sounds very industrious. Good on her.

ChitChattingWithKids · 16/09/2011 17:47

Also, there are legal implications for you, as well. As her employer you have a duty of care to ensure that she doesn't work too hard and harm herself, particularly as she is pregnant. Now that you are aware that she is overdoing things, you MUST talk to her about it.