Nanny question - ballpark cost for a baby 3 days and 4y old 3 after-schools?

In many ways the salary is the easiest to adjust. Really what we need is a figure for costs on top of the salary+employer's NI because that's what catches people out. You may have a childcare budget of £24k pa but if you're spending £5k on incidentals you have £19k to pay the nanny with...

I think the problem with working out the average cost of a nanny is it varies too much. The difference in hourly rate between an inexperienced/unqualified/newly qualified nanny in an area where nannies are cheapest and a very qualified/experienced nanny in central London is massive; probably double. Also the number of hours needed can vary hugely 7-7, 5 days a week; 60 hrs a week, 9-5 5 days a week; 40 hrs a week. Expenses (as said above) vary dependng on the nanny, the area, the children, the parents etc. There are so many variables that any attempt to work out the average cost of a nanny becomes almost useless.

It may be more useful to produce a table showing the hourly rate for an inexperienced and experienced nanny in a number if areas. For example; Central London, Outer London, South, Midlands, North maybe? Or something along those lines. Then mention the other costs and maybe the range it can cover rather than giving an approximate figure....

Well near us there are loads of free playgrounds - but just as nannynick pointed out, you have to pay to park at most of them.

1 trip to Soft play will be just shy of £10 for 1 adult and 2 children - free parking but a few miles so petrol money. Any of the children's farms will cost between £10 and £15. That's not including any snacks or treats there. So just 2 outings a week could cost £30 easily, a few extra pounds for parking for the free ones.

Any of the set 'classes' usually work out to about £7 of £8 per session, but must be purchased in advance so cost regardless of whether the child participates that week or not, and are either quite a drive away or nearby but with parking at a cost.

A cup of coffee is easily £2 - £3 - and a lot of these places don't make it easy to bring your own lunch (eg separate seating areas which just aren't as nice, etc).

I take my DC to coffee shops for a cake and a cuppa/juice because I want them to learn how to sit (relatively) still and behave themeselves so that I'm not embarrassed when I take them out to functions/events with other people - again that costs money.

'Play dates' are probably the most economical activity - but it takes a lot of time and effort for nannies to develop a network of contacts if they're new, and if they're experienced they will be more expensive already - bit of a catch 22 cost wise.

TBH it's why I use a CM 2 days a week instead of using a part time nanny now. She has her own memberships and takes the children on outings of her choice on those days.

Think you've hit the nail on the head there ChitChattingaway... some parents do not discuss the potential day-to-day costs in advance with their nanny and then get a shock later on.

Also location can make a difference to costs... if I take the children to feed the ducks (at a location where there are always ducks/swans), it is a 10 mile each way journey and costs us £1.80 to park the car, with then a short walk from the carpark to the river.
There is another location I know where there are usually ducks, it's a 5 mile journey each way, then a 2.12mile walk (each way). Car parking is on the road, so not ideal but is free. Good exercise for the children, I must try to do that one more often.

Other people may live somewhere which has a duckpond within walking distance... for them feeding the ducks is free... for me it's not as we have a 10 mile round trip in the car at least.

I agree with fraktious! Nick's figures can be a little high for the nanny's rates, but definitely not unrealistic if you want anyone with experience. Also the additional costs are what can make having a nanny unaffordable for people and are so easily not calculated - or not discussed with the nanny at the beginning - instead they start panicking several months into it when they realise how expensive it all is.

I think nick tends to prepare people for the worst, which is a good plan. You may get a thrifty nanny, you may not. You may be prepare to pay for outsourcing chores etc to the nanny, therefore increasing mileage and expenses, or you may not. A 5 mile trip to pick up dry cleaning is £2.20, which some people could do on their way home for example. Weekly dry cleaning at £2.20 a go is in excess of £100 extra a year. Little things mount up!

Nannynick - homebaked cakes??? I wish. Nanny wasn't very good at cooking full stop - I used to have to prepare most of the meals. Once a month she would decide to bake some cupcakes and that was it. (You might remember me from previous posts with major nanny problems with a similar sounding username - things did not end well, but end they did!!!)

I suspect she used to wash about 5 items of clothing at a time, and toss them into the tumble dryer to dry - repeat with all the washing. (She used to do a few general household chores as well - but had no driving licence so I had to do the nursery runs, prepare most meals etc - I worked from home).

Radios were left on, ditto tv, laptop, lights, etc.

Yes chipping I know nannies like that too I reckon they must have put the heating on all day. A nanny I knew would be given twenty pound a day kitty she thought she could spend it all mainly in costa costa coffee.

Nick I would have whats in the fridge if there was nothing open will usually boil an egg or buy myself a salad out of my own money.

banana87: £360 Net per week, 4 days per week = around £24,000 gross per year, employers NI of around £2500 so cost to employer of around £26500, plus the other aforementioned costs.

redglow: 20p for a sandwich, gosh you are cheap to feed. I expect the tuna I have in a sandwich alone is more than 20p worth. Heating is very dependent on the house and the weather... Victorian (or even older) house may not be very energy efficient. Absolutely agree it's up to the family how much they will permit to be spent on activities. Some nannies I know go to 'baby classes' type groups every day.

ChitChattingaway: Interesting that you noticed that electric use went up 3 times. That does sound a lot, electric oven? Did you get lots of home baked cakes? For three times the cost it must have been a lot of cakes! I think all nannies try to find savings vouchers, know I do - vouchers can mean we get to visit new places.

befuzzled: hope this is helping you get an idea of the things you need to consider. You can limit the costs by imposing limits on what your children do during the day, how far your nanny is permitted to drive, that sort of thing. Having a nanny should make your life easier... as they will be doing somethings around the home, even if it's just putting on washloads. You have to weigh up the pros and cons whilst also making sure that it is affordable.

The extra costs of having a nanny are really dependant on the calibre and maturity of the nanny, I'm afraid. When we had a part time nanny our utility bills were outrageously high, because she just didn't take any care to be careful with things. In fact for 2nd quarter of the year, our electricity usage was 3 times higher with her here than without her here (volume, not price) - the only difference in those 2 quarters is that the adult present in the first one was her, and the adult present in the second one was me. (Have been trying to work out how the difference could be so great, but just can't!!!!!)

Also costs out and about - some nannys think it is fine to constantly buy little treats for the DC, buy lunches out, go to expensive venues. Others will look for savings vouchers, prepare lunches and snacks, be strict with buying junk items, etc, etc.

I work three days a week and get the same as you nick. But I do most things that are free like local parks toddler groups etc . Dont really use the car much. The food that I eat does not cost much probably about 20p for a sandwich. Not often that you need the heating on all day. I look after four children so still cheaper than a nursery afterschool care etc. Really its up to the family gow much they spend on activities.

I have a nanny 3 days a week 9-5.30pm. Costs about £1100 PCM not including food, activities and petrol.
We insured her on our car as we couldn't afford 40p per mile petrol!
You obviously have to find alternative childcare to co er nanny's annual leave but for us having a nanny is not much more than having 2 children in nursery.
We are in the midlands.

Sorry, meant to add that's net per week.

When I was a nanny I got £360 for 4 days a week, 7:30-7. It was a baby and two school aged kids, plus nursery duties.

Befuzzled - still cheaper than an experienced nanny, which I feel is what you would want with a small baby.

Even £9 gross per hour + employers ni contribution is more than £1200 per month (I'm working it out on a 10 hour day). £9 gross per hour is £7.63 net - in your area this may get you a college leaver or someone with a year or two's experience in a day nursery or someone with a year or two nanny experience - you could find someone who is completely capable of managing 3 children including a baby, after all we all started somewhere and needed to gain experience. But if you were wanting someone with more experience you would be looking at paying £10 gross per hour or more.

With a nanny your 6 year old would not need to go to after-school club, or holiday clubs during the school holidays.

What are the actual hours you would need a nanny to work - so say allow a handover period of 15 minutes before you leave home and after you return home, so you don't feel quite so rushed in the morning and have a bit or flexibility if you get delayed coming home.

As nanny works at your home, you don't have to get your children dressed and to nursery/school in the morning. That can make mornings more relaxed, at least for you... though nanny will of course then have the fun of getting all the children dressed and fed and to school/nursery on time.

How much do you get Redglow? I'm on a little over £10 gross an hour.

Some days can be cheap especially trips to the park. Toddler groups in my area are £2 a time. Music groups, tumble tots are too expensive, as with 2 or 3 children when cost is on a per-child basis the cost shoots up.
Swimming we can do for under £5 during school term time... not during holidays.
Daily activities figure was from a few years back, so I might track what I actually spend during September to see if it's still about right or not.

How much do you get Redglow? I'm on a little over £10 gross an hour.

Some days can be cheap especially trips to the park. Toddler groups in my area are £2 a time. Music groups, tumble tots are too expensive, as with 2 or 3 children when cost is on a per-child basis the cost shoots up.
Swimming we can do for under £5 during school term time... not during holidays.
Daily activities figure was from a few years back, so I might track what I actually spend during September to see if it's still about right or not.

I always think that nick makes nannies look more expensive than they actually are, but he is right to point out all the hidden costs that people may just not think of. Nannies are an expensive option.

Wages wise he's about right, but tends to work it out on a long day. Not everyone needs a nanny for 11 or 12 hours a day (my last 3 jobs have been 9 or 10 hours a day) - those extra 1 or 2 hours add up to quite a lot over the year.

I think he over estimates expenses too - £5 per day is a lot, I usually spend £5 per week. I work a 3 day week and we go to toddler group £1, parks free, swimming £2.50 for me, under 5's free, woodland walks free, storytime at the library free, playdates at other nannies houses and them to us free, the occasional ice lolly for me and older dc £1.50 (probably once a month). I'm currently looking after 2 under 3's so they don't have swimming lessons/football/ballet - but these are things that you might well book your children in for anyway - some may be on your days at home and some on the nannies days. We do have an annual farm membership which for me the cost is £1.75 per week. The children and mum are members too and go on days that I am not there - it's a membership they had before I started with them. Remember as the employer you are entitled to set your nannies kitty budget and ask that she finds low cost/free things to do. If you have older school aged children then school holidays can be more expensive, but children don't need weekly visits to theme parks and cinemas - there are lots of low cost options to entertain them.

Iwork in surrey and I dont get that sort of money. Nick you are putting people of getting nannies.

I use a childminder 3 days a week (term time only) for 8 hr days. I pay £30 per day and if I had another child for after school minding I would pay £4.50 per hour, so for us it would probably work out at £450 per month(-ish as it depends on which days the month starts and finishes).

We're in Birmingham and I provide nappies (as use washable) and all food too. This doesn't come to much at all - dh makes my lunch and dd's when she's having her breakfast and we just have the same.

Not sure if I just have a fantastic deal, but I think £1100 a month childcare is extortionate - and £38,000 a year for a nanny?! [Disclaimer: Not saying they're not worth it, but I could never afford that]

culturemulcher - would love to know the actual figures you found things cost. Especially for things like the miscellaneous things such as Food, heating/lighting. That figure is very hard to know... if someone is a SAHP and is going back to work, then that cost may not be much of a factor at all, as many things would have been a cost if they stayed at home themselves. However if the house is left empty during the day (due to children being at nursery) then those costs do then appear, especially in winter if the nanny likes a warm house.

Travel costs obviously depend on the travel situation.

Is there another child you haven't mentioned previously... if so, a nanny may become more viable. The more children you have the more viable a nanny is in my view.

PAYE For Idiots (not sure I can explain this simply)

When you pay an employee... the government has decided that you will pay them some money.

You DEDUCT from your employee, Employee Income Tax and Employee National Insurance.
You PAY Employers National Insurance.
So you agree a salary with your employee and then each payday (so say end of each month) you calculate (these days using computer software) the amount of Income Tax and National Insurance to deduct from your employee's wage. You then pay the remaining amount to your employee... this is known as Net Wage.
Once every 3 months, you pay HM Revenue & Customs the Income Tax and NI you have deducted from your employee. Plus you also pay Employers NI (which also gets calculated every payday).

If you have ever had a payslip from your own employer, you will be able to see these deductions going on. Payslips have to show the deductions (at least those which affect the employee).

Nanny Payroll companies will take care of most of this for you... for a fee. Their fees can vary, www.payefornannies.co.uk does my payslip and they charge £115 a year for the basic service, which will cover generating the payslips and telling you how much to put aside for HMRC and when to pay the amount to HMRC, plus they will notify HMRC about how much you are paying your employee and generate forms needed such as P60, P45.