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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

CM & domestic violence [sad]

38 replies

HavishamFish · 16/08/2011 21:10

Hi ? name changed for this because it?s not really about me, iyswim, and there are posters who know me in RL and could identify the others involved.
My 3 dc are looked after by a CM, who is brilliant. For as long as we?ve known her (7 years) she has been in a pretty miserable marriage. About 6 weeks ago, her h attacked her , was arrested and bailed. He has since been living with his parents as per bail conditions.
She has been to see me today (she looks after the kids during term time only), to say that she is thinking of taking him back. She?s tried to drop the charges but CPS have decided the case will go ahead. Social Services have been involved (her dd, and mine, witnessed the incident ) and have told her that she is obliged to inform Ofsted.
She is very worried that Ofsted will de-register her. Can anyone tell me if this is likely?
My personal opinion is that she?d be mad to ever let the scumbag over the threshold again, and if this happens dh and I would have some serious thinking to do re: her looking after the dc (which would be awful for everybody ? she is a lovely woman and fantastic with them), but for now I?d really appreciate some guidance about the Ofsted ramifications.

OP posts:

Original poster

HavishamFish · 08/09/2011 20:51

Good idea, Dracula'sMum. Wouldn't want you getting infuriated unnecessarily, & whilst you are of course entitled to your opinion & I'm happy to respond to it, I was really after information & practical advice, which I'm grateful to have received from other posters.

I agree ledkr, she couldn't continue to cm from home if he returns. Neither of us would've had any objection if Ofsted had said: You will have to inform us, & stop CMing immediately, if any breach of the bail conditions occurs. SS will be monitoring the situation & we will take an extremely dim view of any failure to report on your part.

It's starting to look like the nanny option might be very workable, though, once she's had a break, which will be a huge relief to everyone involved.

OP posts:

ledkr · 08/09/2011 10:18

What a shame. Its understandable though. He could flip at any time and has done.
I work with Mums who lose their children rather than get rid of violent partner so nothing surprises me anymore.

DraculasMum · 08/09/2011 10:10

I'm going to hide this now as your infuriating me with the ignorance and naivety your displaying.

Original poster

HavishamFish · 07/09/2011 20:09

Thanks thebody .

Right, off to bed. I have to taxi dd2 to MIL, older two to ds's friend's house, arrive at both of the above no earlier than 7.30 yet get to work by 7.45, teach a full day + an after school additional GCSE, repeat the taxi malarkey, do the evening mummy shift then a couple of hours' marking...repeat the whole 'mare on Friday...

...if anyone's got Nanny McPhee or Mary Poppins's number, now would be a good time to share it!

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thebody · 07/09/2011 19:48

Eva so sorry for you, what a bloody awful time you had, hope things are better for you now and Havisham totally understand your feelings for your lovely cm and think you deserve respect for standing by her, hope all gets a better outcome in the future.

Original poster

HavishamFish · 07/09/2011 19:39

Sorry eastmidlands - didn't mean to ignore you!

I can see how you might envisage the 'begging to see the children' scenario, but honestly, if he wants to see them, he makes contact with CM via her dsis/bil & she drops them round there or their grandparents - there is no restriction on his spending time with them.

& I'm not at all dismissing or minimising the distress & fear the bastard caused my dd - I'm furious about it - but it wasn't CM's fault! & I can't make it not have happened by keeping dd away from CM, whom she loves & who has looked after her all her life.

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Original poster

HavishamFish · 07/09/2011 19:07

@DraculasMummy - no, I don't think there's ever been a tense & horrible atmosphere. It's an arranged marriage between two people who are normally politely indifferent to each other - he works long hours, she does the CMing, they communicate about their dc whom they both adore...it's been 'miserable' in the sense that they've just never loved each other or had anything in common, not because he's ever previously been abusive.

He's a sad & rather nasty little man who has behaved unforgivably towards his wife & doesn't deserve a second chance, however 'remorseful' he is now, but he's not some sort of calculating psycho predator who's going to come after my family! The idea's quite ludicrous.

If at any point my children had been anything but happy & cared for, I would immediatly have made other arrangements. The only way my personal feelings are involved is that I am VERY pissed off about Ofsted treating my fantastic CM like a criminal when she is in fact the blameless victim here.

EvaLongoria - thank you for sharing that, that was a really helpful post. . I'm sorry you had to stop CMing & I really hope you find/have found something else x.

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DraculasMum · 06/09/2011 09:43

For as long as we?ve known her (7 years) she has been in a pretty miserable marriage

This part is what gets me, for 7 years you have been allowing your children into a tense and miserable home, now anyone can put a smile on their faces and pretend that everything is ok but you saying this must of known her situation.

Surely no-one is naïve enough to think that just because she is a nice person that the tense and horrible atmosphere only went on out of business hours??

It sounds to me you have let your personal relationship get in the way of your professional relationship, its not healthy to do this. What if this man turns on your own family?

EvaLongoria · 06/09/2011 08:55

Hi Havisham

Only just came across this thread else I could have told you that they will definitely suspend her or deregister.

2 years ago also end of August I had knock on the door from an inspector and policeman. It seemed that a lady whos kids I temporarily childminded over the holidays has decided to telly porky pies and say I physically abused her kids. Reasons she did this was completely out of spite and the fact that she firstly didnt want to pay me and 2ndly thought I was going to report her to Social Services for leaving her son with me overnight (I was registered to do this) but with no medicine for his Asthma. Long story short. They suspended me not exlplaing anything. The Monday I finally heard what it was all about. She was quite clever in contacting Ofsted directly instead of police or SS. Because when Ofsted got in touch with police & SS they said they were not going to do anything about it as she is "known" to them as she has done it before.

However SS & Police had to them mention to them that they actually have heard of me beginning of the year Jan. I had an incident with H (he used to smoke weed and be really aggressive). After one final incident of him breaking my mobile I called the police and had him arrested as he repeated broke laptops & mobiles and I had enough. This was a wake up call in never ever breaking my things again but SS did come out as my DD was over 1. Because at that time I was registered but did not childmind I didnt realise that I had to inform Ofsted of what happened. When police & SS told them they had to take action. We had a court hearing to see if I could lift my suspention whilst they also investigated the accusations of the mum. Even though the panel didnt all agree that it was right to suspend me they did side with Ofsted in the end. Even though we moved to a new area to show that we are starting afresh, that childminding was helping financially as we argued loads about money as I didnt work since my baby was born and everything they said that he did that in the last 12 months.

By the end of my 6 week suspension they came to tell me that they cleared my name. That they believe that I did not abuse the 2 boys. That the mum all made it up. Re: my childminding I could only continue to childmind if I split from my husband. As there will be no way of proving to me that he wont be there during the day and it would be unfair on him and us that if he is sick or had a day off I then every time have to cancel on the parent. If I didnt they would cancel me and I will never be able to work with kids in any capacity again.

I decided to resign therefore giving me the option to in future work with kids or even childmind again. So yes I couldnt then break up my family but guess what 2 years later he did it all by himself as now we have a baby and he is clean from weed since I told Ofsted but started using cocaine. So technically I can reapply as a childminder now and I could be approved. But I can guarantee you that unless she agrees that they are over Ofsted will not let her stay registered.

Oops sorry for long post

eastmidlandsnightnanny · 06/09/2011 07:40

unless you need an oftsed registered nanny then you could have her nanny in your home but that would be your choice and you would need to make the risk assessment of whether she may/may not have contact with her husband whilst your children are in her care.

Any case of domestic violence where children are present/in the family has to be referred to social services obv where its been reported to any other agency and social services will complete an assessment.

Although I can see all your points as you know this minder well, Ofsted only have the information they have been provided with and have to protect everyone involved and the potential risk however minimal could be serious if it happened - worse case scenario she is childminding he comes round begs and begs to see his children she lets him in - arguement happens he becomes violent/refuses to leave etc etc.

Domestic violence is a very diffcult thing to understand and more than likely however much she says she wont let him round or take him back he has probably worn her down so much she has little self-esteem and he will play on that.

Unfortunately if he finds out she has no income now he will also prob play on that in that she needs him back as she has no money and he can provide for her etc

I understand the situation you are in but however much I liked a childminder and trusted her think you need to take a step back and see it from an outsider's perspective and see the very potential however minimal risk to your children.

Your child has already witnessed an incident - which I am surprised if she reported to ofsted immediatly it happened they didnt act then however the emotional impact on children from witnessing violence is often mimimised by adults and you really need to consider this.

Original poster

HavishamFish · 05/09/2011 21:57

The point is that she is NOT living in these conditions.

If she does, after the case comes to court & assuming he doesn't get a custodial sentence, end up making the (totally regrettable IMO) decision to allow him to return to the family home, we've agreed that she will tell me that that's what she has decided, & we'll make other arrangements.

I'm not worried that she might allow him on the premises without my knowledge in the meantime, because a) I trust her - I've known her for years, & after all, if she were less honest & truthful, she'd have told Ofsted what they wanted to hear b) I know she's most decidedly NOT pining for him & c) my dc would hardly keep quiet about it.

Also, he's shown absolutely no inclination to break his bail conditions - he's terrified of going to prison.

Dh spoke to Ofsted today. They say that CM agreed to stop caring for the dc & it 'isn't a formal suspension'. However, if she hadn't agreed, they'd have 'monitored the situation closely' - fair enough, but they also admit that she was very distressed during the interview, & it seems that they told her that if she carried on minding the kids, & was subsequently officially suspended, this could make it 'very difficult' for her to work with children in the future.

Been round with flowers & had a long chat this evening - we've agreed that she needs a break of at least a month, & probably until after her h is up in court, & then we'll talk about the nanny option. Interviewing a temporary CM later this week.

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DraculasMum · 05/09/2011 21:00

Blimey what an awful situation.

Im going to be blunt here, if i knew that my CM was in a horrible relationship with the potential to be so volitile (sp?) there is no way on this planet i would allow her to look after my children.

She has stayed in a relationship which is tense which has now gone to the next level and he has hit her - IN FRONT OF YOUR CHILD!

apologies for sounding harsh but she should NOT be childminding whilst living in these conditions, regardless of being a lovely person you should not be allowing your child to be around these people.

HereIGo · 05/09/2011 18:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

HavishamFish · 04/09/2011 21:20

I've actually got a copy of that book somewhere BertieBotts - good idea, I'll offer to lend it to her .

RandomMess - not got room to move them all in, no, although both sets of dc would probably love that idea .

Dh has name of Ofsted inspector he spoke to on Thursday, & is planning to ring & try to clarify things tomorrow. By the time all this dropped on us Friday, she'd left the office.

I'm back at school tomorrow (teacher) - kids don't go back till Tuesday, so dh has taken emergency leave tomorrow. No idea what we'll do on Tuesday. Not really what anyone needed to end the hols...

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RandomMess · 04/09/2011 18:30

Is it worth you ringing ofsted and asking them would they object to her nannying your children in your own home as you know her dh wouldn't dare come to your property.

Actually have you got room for him to become your live in with her dc?

BertieBotts · 04/09/2011 18:19

Could you get her a copy of the book "Why does he do that?" - it might not help in the short term, especially if she is feeling intimidated, and probably won't help with the ofsted situation, but it's written for people just coming out of an abusive relationship, people wavering should I/shouldn't I? and also people who want to stay with their abuser in the hope he will change. It's very comprehensive and very good at breaking down the barriers of "Oh but he loves me" "He's a great dad" "I'd be breaking up the family" "He's really sorry - he's trying to change" among many many other points.

thebody · 04/09/2011 14:29

god yes see what you are saying, hope they put the bastard behind bars for a bit to give her some breathing space but that probably wont happen.

you are supporting her so much havisham but of course you can only do so much, its down to her in the end...

Original poster

HavishamFish · 04/09/2011 14:21

I completely agree thebody, that would be the best outcome all round as far as I'm concerned.

As it is, it's working out quite nicely for her h - he gets his wife back, he gets her financially dependent on him, he's rid of dh & me 'interfering' & 'putting ideas into her head' - & if he ever assaults her again, I very much doubt she'll feel inclined to report it .

RandomMess - the nanny option might be possible once the dust settles.

Atm, she is so terrified of Ofsted (think Harry Potter's first encounter with the Dementors) that she has convinced herself that if they so much as see her with my children, they will immediately sic SS on her & she'll lose her children.

Which probably didn't help in the interview. English isn't her first language & what with that & being paralysed with nerves, I can imagine she came across as inarticulate & easily intimidated (actually she's neither) - leading them to conclude that if her h did turn up, she'd be too scared to report it.

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thebody · 04/09/2011 13:22

its bloody awful for her, and can so see all of your points its just that one tiny 'may' take him back isnt it, that probably left ofsted with no choice but quite see that its depriving her of an income.

pehaps she needs to get an inspector round and categorically state that she would never have him in the house, ever, even in 2 months time, and then she needs to divorce the fucker..

unfortunatly thats easy to say isnt it, awful situation for her and for all concerned.

RandomMess · 04/09/2011 13:18

Can you go ahead with the nanny option?

Original poster

HavishamFish · 04/09/2011 13:10

That's the problem mrsttobe - they've taken that choice away from her by suspending her before she's in a position to make it.

She hasn't taken him back. She has been honest with them (& us) & said that it may be an option in two months time, after he's been to court (& assuming he's not in prison).

Because she's said this, they have decided that they don't trust her not to have him in the house in the meantime, despite her assurances & the fact that he'd be breaching his bail conditions.

So her choice now isn't CMing or her h - it's single parent benefits or her h.

If it was a case of them warning her that IF he was on the premises she would have her registration suspended, that would be entirely reasonable & as you say, she would have to choose.

I'm still waiting for Ofsted to actually inform me of the situation. They apparently thought it was OK to ring CM on Friday afternoon, drop this bombshell on her & leave her to inform me that I need alternative childcare for Monday because Ofsted apparently think she's a liar who'd put my children at risk...a totally unnecessary & distressing humiliation for her.

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mrsthomsontobe · 04/09/2011 10:08

hopefully the thought of losing her business will stop her taking him back. i know if i thought i would lose my job and have no income then i wouldnt be taking a violent partner back as my work means to much to me

MUM2BLESS · 03/09/2011 16:15

It all so sad. You seem like such a lovely and loyal friend. I trust all goes well for your friend in the future . I send you a BIG HUG for your support in all of this.

Original poster

HavishamFish · 03/09/2011 14:07

I've passed on the numbers dittany yes - the trouble is she's now wishing she hadn't even called the police....

I just hope the fucker gets a custodial sentence. That'd sort the whole mess out.

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dittany · 03/09/2011 13:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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