how do we handle this? Potential nanny dishonesty

Thats a lot of money when the activities are paid by you.

To answer your question, no if i was sure she took the money i wouldn't want her to work the 4 wks. That's because i would imagine drugs, addictions, dodgy boyfriend etc. But maybe i have a wild imagination.

Have you met her boyfriend btw?

you could monitor the account online and then the next time she makes a cash withdrawal, tell her the bank contacted you as a routine security check. Ask her why she was withdrawing such a large amount and ask her what exactly it was for. that should give you a good idea as to what is going on, but it doesn't look good.

I've just seen that you also said that 'some other bills get paid out of this account.'

OP tread very carefully here with the nanny.

The name on the card thing occurred to me to and ALSO: OP are you're sure your DH isn't using it for anything? If it is hundreds of pounds.

How did it come up again?

Is there any change, that you're aware of, to her personal circumtances?

If his name is on the account and hers isn't at all, hence the need for the cash withdrawls, I think it will be very very difficult to prove to a third party (such as an employment tribunal if you fire her and she disputes it) that she was the one who made the withdrawls.

I understand your concern about trusting her with your kids, house, etc going forward if through investigating it.

But, if the situation is as I've described, plus you've not talked about budgets and asked for receipts, I think there are a lot of ways you could put yourself at risk here if you're not careful.

If you go down the route of checking through the bank accts line by line she is going to feel accused anyway. You need to be ready for things to get unpleasant I think.

I would cancel the current card on the advice of one of the previous posters re security risk of 'sharing' an account in this way.

Then you can say, I think it makes sense for us to agree a weekly budget with you - we can deposit an amt into your acct directly or we can give you cash at the start of the week. Which do you prefer?

Then say for tax filing purposes you will need to go back to requesting receipts.

And then see her reaction. I think if she's relying on the money for her own lifestyle this will come out in the wash.

I think it's not just the matter of cash withdrawals per se, but the amount of cash withdrawals.

i dont get why is it odd to take money out with a card rather then pay with a card? a, it might not be possible to pay ie for coffees/drinks with a card at some places and b, the nanny might prefer it that way, we are all different. if the op didnt say anything about how they want the nanny to use the card, i dont think its anything weird about it as such.
watching with interest, how the situation develops ...

Not read any updates but late last night it suddenly came to me - does she take out cash as it causes problems in shops if the sales assistant sees she has a card with Mr on it?

I just had a thought.
It would be good if StillS was on the thread and advice OP before OP acts. Perhaps if someone sees her on another thread....

If you're not asking for receipts, won't it be hard to prove that she didn't just spend more than usual on her normal expenses? What will you do if you ask her and she tells you she has just been doing more expensive things this month? Can you dismiss her based on that?

You need to start checking receipts again...

But she needs to be sure about 'personal use' because even tea in Ritz, taxis, pizza, cinema, can be described as 'part of the job'. (technically speaking ).
It will be very difficult for OP to prove anything.

But if it was hundreds pounds then maybe something dodgy happened, in that case you need immiade and sharp chat.

Reading the op she is worried that the amounts drawn from the account do not tally with what has/could have been spent to do with the children and thinks that nanny has taken money out for personal use.

Yes, things are more expensive these days and it is easy to spend someone elses money without worrying about the cost, but this sounds like it may be a few hundred pounds over a matter of weeks.

I don't understand. You gave her the card and told her to use it. You didn't set up rules and budget. How can you call it 'theft' and 'dishonesty'?

OP: 'Nanny, have you withdraw cash?'
Nanny: Yes, for the music class/baby gym/coffee in the park cafe.
OP: Thats ok. Last month the bill was a bit high thu.
Nanny: Yes, thats because we went to Ritz for tea.
OP: I can't afford that.
Nanny: I didn't know. i assumed....

Silly and careless, yes. But it is not theft or dishonesty.

Maybe she met a new group of nannies, those who lunch out, and she joins them. Who knows?

You just need to talk to her and to set up a reasonable budget.

eldon large, unusual transactions are likely to be flagged up as fraudulent. Increased numbers of relatively small cash amounts will get through but still add up to a lot of cash.

The only time my card was used fraudulently (and I'm thankful it was only once because it was a hassle) I only knew because there was a £1.5k purchase of furniture. I know I didn't make that off my personal account. But if my/DH's joint account was cloned or a chequebook stolen we wouldn't necessarily pick up increased smallish withdrawals.

Does she give you change or any receipts at all.

You are well within your rights to ask (tactfully) what these withdrawals have gone on.

My boss (I'm a nanny),gives me her card but I have a nannying purse and a personal purse, the nannying one is quite large and every evening before I leave I put it on their kitchen table with all receipts used for the day and any cash or cards so that they can file their receipts away for tax purposes.

This keeps everything simple.

If she feels accused in any way, it will be a massive blow to her self esteem esp. if she has only been as slack as you have let the boundaries become yourselves.

Just tell her that you have to do a tax return and need to file away all receipts for your end of year assessment (or something like this) Then she won't feel awkward you could even roll your eyes about HMRC taking the personal element out of this potentially uncomfortable discussion, because if she no longer feels trusted by you it could be the beginning of the end.

Good luck

re PIN and cloning - surely they'd take out the max amount daily until they clear the account??

PIN can be recorded via various methods... hidden camera, false front on cash machine. See here (PDF) for a picture of a card reader. Also a BBC News article a false panel with video device.

don't jump to any conclusions yet - it is quite possible the card was cloned - you see it on tv all the time - there is a camera to record the pin number, or sometimes someone stood to one side of you - while the card details are copied. it makes it all the easier to speak to her as well if you start off by semi-believing that is what might have happened.

I feel you would need to give a reference, though it may be very short and simply lay out how long they worked for you and invite people to call you.

It might be instant dismissal if it falls under the Gross Misconduct section of the contract. Theft is often mentioned under Gross Misconduct. You may be open to a wrongful dismissal claim if they feel they were not to blame. It may be hard for you to prove theft. So another option would be to give notice under the terms of the contract.

It should be very easy to bring this up without being accusing towards your nanny, just make sure you go in with the 'account possibly been compromised' angle
Speak to her asap and tell her that you've discovered several hundered pound cash withdrawals in one week on the latest bank statements which doesnt seem right to you. You and DH are concerned that the card has been cloned and there is something going on that you may need to report to the bank. This is not necessarily anyones fault, many people have their cards cloned in seemingly innocent situations (like handing a card over in a restaurant and having it out of sight for a moment)
Ask the nanny to please go through the bank statement with you and check off which withdrawals she made herself so you can see what potentially fraudulent ones remain.
IF she says it wasnt her that made all the withdrawals, then you should go ahead and report to the bank/police as your card could have been cloned (hopefully the idea that you are reporting to police will prevent the nanny from lying to you if the money was taken by her!)
or IF the nanny says it was all her, then show her a comparison of how much she is spending over the last couple of months to her previous expenses spend (make sure you have the previous average spend to hand before you speak to her) and ask her to justify the huge increase and what it was spent on.
If she cant justify it then you will have to take action re her dishonesty.

Cancel the card and then sit down with her and the statements and ask what she spent the money on

Makes sense that it would be used near where she lives or in local area of your home. Also makes sense that transactions are when children are at school as it is probably easier doing it without the children present and may have fitted with something else she was doing at the time.

Thing is, why use it at all for cash withdrawals? A lot of things these days can be paid for with a debit card.

Card could be cloned and used anywhere. Could be used locally to where the card is cloned so that it's harder to detect it being a clone card.

£100 per week for several weeks does sound a bit much to be going through, especially given it's been school term time not school holidays.

How about you tell her that there seems to be many transactions occurring on the card and thus you are no longer letting her have the card, so then all transactions that appear you know are not being made by anyone known to you. Then just give her cash as and when needed.

Not necessarily HalfPast, cards can sometimes be cloned.