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Original poster

how do we handle this? Potential nanny dishonesty

87 replies

HalfPastSeven · 16/07/2011 15:54

Our nanny has been with us for years. She is great with the children and generally lovely. However, it looks like she may have been using "expenses" money for herself. Because she has been with us so long, we stopped checking receipts etc ages ago.

She has a card for one of our bank accounts which does not have loads of money in it, but has more than she needs for expenses (some other bills get paid out of that account). She is supposed to use that for expenses (e.g. when she buys food or takes the DC for trips etc)

Looking at the last couple of bank statements, it looks like she has been spending loads and I just can't understand what it is going on.

Obviously if she has been dishonest we wil have to let her go instantly and wont be abel to give her a reference. I feel quite sick about the whole thing.

What do you think is the best way to handle this - I dont want to accuse her of theft straight out just in case it is genuine expenses (although I find it hard to see that it could be) or if there has been a fraud on the account (although it is mainly local cash withdrawals ).

I do not use the account except for emergencies and nanny has DH's card.

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basingstoke · 19/07/2011 16:28

Did she confirm that she had made all the withdrawals? Just thinking that if there was still the possibility that your card has been cloned, to continue not to act would perhaps make it more difficult for you to get the money back from the bank? My card was cloned, and we found out when we noticed a number of medium sized withdrawals locally. If she said it was her, then of course that is irrelevant!

TheOriginalFAB · 19/07/2011 16:18

I have to say I have worked for lots of families. Some were very generous with their money and some not so. Whatever the situation I was always mindful that I was spending someone else's money and wouldn't spend recklessly. Indeed sometimes I would use my own if I felt it was a lot.

Original poster
HalfPastSeven · 19/07/2011 16:04

Thanks. We will def make sure we get reciepts for everything, and I guess you are right we should be more specific about the kitty arrangements (I think DH was thinking that if she was implying - without admitting wrongdoing - that she would be paying us back by paying expenses out of her own pocket for a while, we should let her save face by doing that).

I am not so much worried about losing the money and being paid back and am comfortable that we will be able to come up with an arrnagement that makes sure we dont lose any more. Just more reflecting on whether it is right to continue to employ her. I have no concerns about my DC being safe with her, more that if her morals are more dubious than we had thought, that this could somehow impact on them.

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BecauseImWorthIt · 19/07/2011 15:54

I think you need to take charge a bit more, tbh, so that there is no lingering doubt. It would not be fair on your nanny otherwise.

Set a budget for each week and give her the cash every Monday morning. On Friday evening she needs to return to you any leftover cash, with full receipts for all her expenditure.

This way you know you're not being ripped off and she knows that she can't take any money from you.

Not saying that she has been, but you need to be absolutely clear about this.

And definitely lock away any valuables too - just in case.

Original poster
HalfPastSeven · 19/07/2011 15:44

the examples she gave were she paid the cleaner twice (we had only recalled once but she is probably correct) and buys cleaning products requested by cleaner (this is true but she has always done this). She also mentioned the course I had already identified (I will double check cost of that).

So it is still far from adding up but we cannot completely prove anything. DH says she did seem relieved to give the card back, so I do wonder if someone was pressuring her to use the card saying we woudl probably not notice. the end date of the statement is 2 weeks ago, so the next statement will cover another 2 weeks when she still had the card so will be interesting to see that.

DC are 7 and 5. No outings etc in the time covered by the statement as still at school. A few after school playdates (some at our house some elsewhere), but no more than the norm.

DH is minded to give her the benefit of the doubt, becuase she looked relieved to give the card back and was apolgetic (without admitting things). He said she needed to give us receipts going forward and we would leave a sensible kitty, so she would need to let us know if there are any trips etc coming up so we ensure there is enough in it. She said no need for a kitty which is odd (maybe she was in her mind "borrowing" the money and now plans to pay back by covering expenses from her own pocket). alternatively she might have just meant she will pay out and then give us receipts to get reimbursed. there is a planned cinema trip on Friday so will leave out kitty money to cover that and see what happens.

I am reflecting to see how comfortable I feel (have locked away lots of paperwork). I think she knows her conversation with DH is not nec the end of it, although I dont know whether he said that directly.

We are going on hols soon. THere is a possible opportunity for DH to change his working hours shortly which would mean we would not need term time childcare (just the vexed question of holiday care), so there is a possible natural break anyway, but it is not clear whether or when this will come off.

because she is so lovely with the DC and out of concern for her own DS, DH also wants to give her a bit of an opportunity to redeem herself.

But I need to reflect.

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harrietthespook · 19/07/2011 14:58

Oh dear Half past. Things can add up - plenty of times we've had our credit card statement and said to ourselves: "It's WHAT?!"

Do you think that based on the conversation it really is more likely that she was covering her own expenses rather than normal day to day stuff running away with her a bit?

FootprintsOnTheMoon · 19/07/2011 14:52

How old are your DC?

is it possible that she is being 'pressured' by one of them to spend more than the norm (e.g. School trips, friends round for a 'party', outings to the cinema with full pick and mix rather than to the park)?

FlubbaBubba · 19/07/2011 14:44

Why didn't your DH go into detail? Surely she would have ounded surprised if she were totally innocent?

Laquitar · 19/07/2011 14:41

What examples did she give? Confused

Original poster
HalfPastSeven · 19/07/2011 14:38

DH had the talk. We have got the card back. She seemed to be expecting the talk and volunteered the card back and seemed relieved to hand it over. DH approached it in a "we need to get more of a handle on what we are spending and budget better, and your expenses are looking very high" type way. She saw the bank statements, but DH did not go through them in detail. She was very apologetic while not admitting anything. She gave a few more expamples of things she had been spending on, and DH did not really push it. We will cancel the card in case there was also fraud going on, but think she woudl have raised this if she thought the number looked too big having seen the statement.

Reflecting on what to do.

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Laquitar · 19/07/2011 12:35

What happened halfpast?
Did you have the talk?

Joggingqueen · 19/07/2011 11:23

Been following the thread.

What was the outcome of the conversation last night?

FlubbaBubba · 18/07/2011 19:05

Good luck halfpast

RitaMorgan · 18/07/2011 18:00

My first thought is that maybe she has got herself into debt and is "borrowing" the money from you with the intention of giving it back - it's easy for these things to spiral out of control.

In that situation if I really liked the nanny, I'd consider forgiving her and sorting out a repayment plan. I understand not everyone would see it that way, but maybe she was desperate and couldn't see another solution.

If she's taking money to buy shoes and holidays that's a different matter of course.

TheOriginalFAB · 18/07/2011 17:50

I really hope it goes well.

Don't worry too much about the children if she leaves suddenly. I used to be a nanny and children are surprisingly resilient.

I used to work for someone, looking after their baby who they had trusted me with, but was never allowed to take the door key home with me.

Original poster
HalfPastSeven · 18/07/2011 15:46

DH pays cleaner, although very occasionally will ask her to do it if he is short. He did this once in this month (I recall the occassion), but I agree this kind of thing makes it harder to "prove". She will know how often we have asked her to do this, but we probably could not prove it to anyone else.

laquitar, it is more thinking about implications on my DC and her DS that is upsetting me.

DH is going to do most of the talking (I will need to keep the DC out of the way). I got bad news about something else today (friend's illness) so am upset anyway, and think it will be counter-productive if I burst in to tears! I can also do the good cop thing if it looks like she is "innocent" and blame it on DH expressly things incorrectly rather than us thinking she has been dishonest if she feels accused.

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BradfordMum · 18/07/2011 15:29

Half - whatever is said isn't going to be easy. She may get very defensive and you then will think maybe you are wrong.

If I were you, I'd jot down a few pointers, just so that you don't forget anything.
I hope there's a simple explanation and it can be resolved amicable.
Good luck.

Sally x

harrietthespook · 18/07/2011 15:22

I was about to say 'borrowing' too laquitar.

harrietthespook · 18/07/2011 15:21

Half past

Try not to panic, seriously. Take everything one step at a time.

I've just seen the scale of the amounts coming out. It could well be fraud.

Laquitar · 18/07/2011 15:15

Does she pays your cleaner or any gardening?

Laquitar · 18/07/2011 15:12

Oh Gosh, i feel bad now. Are you in tears because of what i said about drugs and boyfriend? As i said, it might be wild imagination.

It might be much simpler. IF (and this is a big If) she takes the money, maybe she is having lunches with other nannies. In some areas nannies are spoilt and you need to spend to keep up with them and be part of the gang.

Or maybe she had difficulties and was planning to put the money back. Like 'borrowing'. And she was embarrased to tell you.

There are millions of scenarios.

Original poster
HalfPastSeven · 18/07/2011 14:42

cheesetoastie, re boyfriend, he does not live or work in our area, and most of the cash withdrawals are in our area during her working hours. it is possible he is putting her up to it though.

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Original poster
HalfPastSeven · 18/07/2011 14:38

FAB, I had that thought about why she might have started using cash, but it does not explain the large increase in amount at the same time.

is there any kind of fraud anyone can think of that would explain this, e.g. that would clone the card but also affect how the "real" card can be used?

I am now in tears. There are so many implications of this.

What if after our conversation we cannot "prove" wrongdoing on her part but still strongly suspect it. Can we really trust her with our children and in our house (there is only so much we can do in securing our papers in our own home) but sounds like we wont be able to sack her.

What if she admits it? We will then obviously dismiss her immediately and take a view on whether to pay her notice. My DC will be devastated - they adore her and her DS. Obviously either DH or I will take leave from work for a while, and reflect, but even so it will be very upsetting for them.

I am also worried about what it woud mean financially for her and her DS. I doubt she will easily get another job with similar pay that allows her to take her DS to work (never mind the potential reference issue), and if she is taking money that must mean she is already struggling financially.

Also, I am now worried based on some of the comments above that if she has been dishonest, it would be so out of character for her that maybe there is something dodgy going on behind the scene, in which case there could be comeback for my family. Not so worried about the employment law side, although appreciate we need to be careful. More whether there could be any threats etc. Paranoid thinking maybe, but then I just dont understnad any of this.

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cheesetoastie · 18/07/2011 14:29

I wouldn't try any complicated ways of asking about it. It is your money, it is your right to ask her how it was spent. There is no need to dress it up. I would just say that you had noticed that the amount spent recently was higher than previously and ask what it was spent on. There will either be a reasonable explanation or not. If nanny denies using the cashpoint it may be worth pointing out that a lot of cashpoints have cameras in them now so the bank may have photos of who has been using them. And that if she didn't use the cashpoint you will need to report it as theft to the police who will also have access to CCTV.
If this was my ex-nanny I would put my money on her boyfriend having found out the PIN and helping himself!

Original poster
HalfPastSeven · 18/07/2011 13:49

She is in a long term relationship and has a son. I have met her boyfriend once. I have also met her mother (she has a lot of family around her). Child comes to work with her some days, and stays with her mother other days.

Her home life seems really stable from what I can gauge, although she does not talk about it that much. She really seems so lovely. I am sure it is not drugs on her part.

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