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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

According to my DD, she spends the whold day watching TV at her childminders!

157 replies

mummyloveslucy · 17/06/2011 21:01

Hi, my 6 year old daughter is home educated and has recently started going to a child minder one day a week. I asked on facebook if anyone knew any good CM's and a friend of my husbands family mentioned her daughter, who used to be a nursery nurse. She's only in her early 20's but I didn't feel we could really say no, so we though we'd give her a try. I sent my DD with a big bag of things to entertain herself, eg pens, paper, puzzles, books etc. When I picked her up she was asleep on the sofa. The CM said she'd been good etc. When I asked her what she'd done, she said watched cbeebies and a DVD. She didn't do any drawings or play with any of her things either. I noticed that the TV has been on every time we've visited, and if it's on, DD will watch it. She has an 18 month old daughter who DD has become very fond of, but no other CM children.
I'm not sure wether to say something very tactful to enquire about what she's been doing there, just carry on taking her, or what? I find these things really awkward! I don't mind her watching a DVD or some TV, but 6 hours worth is just too much. She goes on a day that's usually a chill out day, but even so, I usually encourage her to play games, read to her and involve her in what I'm doing.
Am I asking too much though?

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nannynick · 19/06/2011 15:51

Using friends to provide childcare can be a low cost option but can make things difficult if they don't care for your child as expected.

I'm wondering what a registered nursery nurse is... registered with whom? Nursery nurses are not registered with anyone - they may though be known to Ofsted as they may have completed a DC2 form (I think it is) in the past. On the other hand they may be registered with Ofsted as a Home Childcarer, under the current scheme of the voluntary part of the childcare register. Either way they may well be deamed to be suitable to work with children... but those checks would not be done on other people resident at the home.

nannynick · 19/06/2011 15:51

Using friends to provide childcare can be a low cost option but can make things difficult if they don't care for your child as expected.

I'm wondering what a registered nursery nurse is... registered with whom? Nursery nurses are not registered with anyone - they may though be known to Ofsted as they may have completed a DC2 form (I think it is) in the past. On the other hand they may be registered with Ofsted as a Home Childcarer, under the current scheme of the voluntary part of the childcare register. Either way they may well be deamed to be suitable to work with children... but those checks would not be done on other people resident at the home.

GnomeDePlume · 19/06/2011 14:28

I think the big issue I see with the OP having an unregistered CM is not the CM herself (OP said she is a registered nursery nurse) but that if I remember correctly a CM's whole setting is registered. The other people in the CM's home are CRB checked, the home has to meet certain safety standards. The CM will be required to have the appropriate trainings and keep them up to date.

My daughter's CM was 'picked from a list'. The CM was wonderful and professional. Not being a friend actually made the relationship easier. There would have been no need to post here on MN (didnt exist then anyway!) as I could simply ask for what I wanted and expect to get it.

anewyear · 19/06/2011 14:08

Please dont tar all childminders with the same brush Pumpkin.

As you can turn this round and tar all parents with the same brush,
simply because we see, not just in the media, in every day life, how many pretty awful ones there out there.

I agree you experiance sounds pretty horrible.
and as for the "we dont really do cuddles" Shock

I would have been inclined to take the child with a dirty nappy back to carer and said something along the lines "here we go, (dump child in said carers arms) she dont half whiff)

nannynick · 19/06/2011 10:57

The standard set by DfES (or whatever their name is under this Government) may well not be sufficient. The regulator (Ofsted) may well not be checking up sufficiently well to make sure providers meet the standard. However, the minimum standard exists and registered providers should be meeting it.

Agreed... there are good registered childminders and unregistered care providers out there. There are also bad ones.

How does a parent decide who is and isn't suitable to care for their child? Is that something Government should be involved with?

pumpkincarver · 19/06/2011 10:51

Nannynick, but they don't meet a minumum standard: I've seen it with my eyes (toddlers with a dirty nappy not getting changed time after time, dirty faces not geting cleaned, total lack of attention to the toddlers who kept coming to me, etc). They were registered yet providing sub-standard care. The registered minder that used to look after my ds used to cook maily junk food and when I asked her to give cuddles to my ds she said "we don't really do cuddles in his house".
The minumum standard set by Ofsted is obviously very low imo.
This doesn'tmean tht CM are crap carers tho, most are very good, just like most unregistered ones.

nannynick · 19/06/2011 10:38

pumpkincarver - being a registered childminder does not give assurance of quality of care, it gives assurance that a minimum standard is met. Like schools, they vary in quality of education (and cost), yet all meet a minimum standard. Same with other professions where there is a regulator involved... there are minimum standards, some will be at the minimum level, others will be of a higher standard.

Childcare regulation has been around since 1948, though could be said to have been established in 1871. Whilst not everyone will agree with the legislation, it does need to be pointed out to parents that the legislation exists and thus someone providing unregistered care is breaching that legislation.

So in my view people are right to point out potential dangers of using unregistered care, that the carer is deemed to be fit to care for child and meet a minimum quality standard. If a parent wants to use an unregistered form of childcare, it is possible as I said in my previous post about having the person provide the care at the home of the child, thus becoming a nanny.

NickNacks · 19/06/2011 09:54

Sure pumpkincarver I've had some pretty shit care from medical staff over the years but i still wouldn't let an unregistered doctor treat me, however 'nice' they seemed!

pumpkincarver · 19/06/2011 09:42

why is everyone implying that the simple fact that someone is a registered CM is an assurance of quality of care? It isn't! I've had a not very good CM and have seen terrible CMs at playgroups (their mindees with a pooey nappy wouldn't get changed, they were inoring their mindees etc to the point that they used to climb on my lap for a story-read).
Equally, there can be very responsible individulas who love caring for children but ar not registered.
Its quite silly to vilify someone simply because their CM isn't registered, it seems to me you're simply attacking the category of minders for "stealing" work from you.

mummyloveslucy · 18/06/2011 20:19

Oh and there are no tests for HE children. (Unless the parents want to test them for some reason). They don't do SATS or anything. That's the great thing about HE, my DD's education is compleatly tailored to her. She learns at an appropriate level for her, in her own time and pace and through things that interest her at the time.

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mummyloveslucy · 18/06/2011 19:32

Hi, yes, we have to pay.... I think anyway. Hmm I could be wrong. Home educated children from my experience far exceed the standards of school taught children for so many reasons. There is of corse the oppertunity to abuse it, but I'm sure that's quite rare. I hope! Home educated children are usually more confident when talking to adults or people of all ages. They are not peer dependant. They are usually very practical and self motivated. They learn through pure enjoyment, fascination and love of learning. Not just in order to remember facts in order to tick the relevent boxes and move on. Even my little daughter will show interest in something and we'll run with it. The fun she's had finding out about things that interest her has been brilliant. She's developing a love of learning that will see her through her life. Smile

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mummyloveslucy · 18/06/2011 19:23

I also wanted to point out that there is NO formal evidence that early formal education benefits the child in any way. Experts suggest that the optimal age for formal learning is between the ages of 8 to 12.
If you'd like to find out more about this, then you can read "Better late than early" and "school can wate" both by Dr Raymond Moore. I did any it's really quite supprising. Sending little children to school before their brains are fully ready defies common sence.

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Ripeberry · 18/06/2011 19:12

There is no law that says children have to go to school. They just have to get an education. If a child is not registered for school then the authorities are not bothered.
Makes you wonder how many hundreds if not thousands of kids are home ed and who is making sure that these children are meeting the same 'standards' that school educated children have to achieve.

And what happens when they have to take their exams, do the parents have to pay the full cost of them? Just curious Smile

mummyloveslucy · 18/06/2011 19:10

You don't have to be a teacher to home ed! In fact people who have been teachers admit that it's totally different and that they've had to re-learn from scratch. One hour home ed a day, makes up for a whole day in school as it's one to one.
During an average school day, a teacher spends approx 7 minutes talking to a child indevidually. I spend all day talking and interacting with my daughter, making sure she understands things, answering her questions, pointing out interesting things etc. That's how she's made so much more progress than she did at school. She has the mental age of 4 at the moment, so shouldn't even be in school. We do so much learning in a fun way, our whole day is spent learning! If you take teaching her to dress herself, cooking and all the wonderful oppertunities for practical maths that activity offers, writing her diary, puzzles, nature walks, speech therapy games... the list is just so long. I say 1 hour a day structured, but everything else is learning too. She doesn't stop learning in the hollidays or at week ends either. She likes to continue her work as it's fun for her!
All the members of our family have something to offer her. She's learning about nature, gardening and cooking from her grandma, geography and maths from her uncle, art from her cousen. This isn't "formal lessons" it's just natural conversation, observation, and practical.
She has two sets of grandparents who help to look after her while DH is working. They both enjoy doing her work with her and she learns so much through sharing experiences with them too.

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HappyMummyOfOne · 18/06/2011 18:39

If your husband is s/e but does all the HE in the day and his day off is spent with you alone whilst your dd is in childcare when does he actually work?

I'd work with the LEA to find a suitable school as that little amount of HE may be fine for a KS1 child but surely not for KS2 and beyond. Not to mention having all the skills to teach so many different subjects if neither of you are teachers.

mummyloveslucy · 18/06/2011 18:34

I bet! Grin I think I'm lucky to have a placid one, I'm not sure I could cope if she wasn't. She is a lot of fun aswel, every day she causes me to laugh one way or another. Smile

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nannynick · 18/06/2011 18:22

The placid ones are lovely - the more challenging one (is that a good way to put it) are fun and keep you on your toes.

mummyloveslucy · 18/06/2011 18:14

Oh and no, she's not a threat to the baby. She's the most gentle little girl you could meet! She is never violent, even in the slightest. She loves little ones too. She is very timid, and gets scared if she sees boys play fighting. When she's scard or worried, she'll be quite clingy to us or might cry, but would never lash out.

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mummyloveslucy · 18/06/2011 18:07

Thanks NannyNick, that's really helpful. Smile

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cat64 · 18/06/2011 14:01

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nannynick · 18/06/2011 13:52

I would be concerned about the safety of the baby... a child who is being assessed for ASD could be a risk to a baby. All children are individuals and some children I've met on the spectrum are very placid and easy going the vast majority of the time. Others though are a danger to all those around them, through very violent outbursts.

Children on the spectrum can often jell with a particular individual, so how well the carer and the child get on is an important aspect.

I would like to make a suggestion to make the situation legal. Currently if it goes on for more than 14 occasions a year, then it's a probably breach of the Childcare Act 2006 (as care provided for more than 2 hours at the home of the carer, the carer is required to be registered as a Childminder with Ofsted if in England) other rules and regulators regulate childcare in Wales/Scotland/NI.

mummyloveslucy - your profile says you live in Devon, so English law applies... so either the person you are using needs to register as a childminder (which may be a bit of a pain if they are just going to care for one child other than their own), or they to provide the care such that it does not fall under the Childcare Act 2006.

To do that is simple... instead of your DD going to their home... they come to your home. They are then a nanny and nannies do not currently have to registered. You would become their employer and would need to keep records for taxation purposes (such as operating PAYE if the other person earns sufficient from you to attract tax/NI, or if they have another income - more details at: HMRC: PAYE Basics) You would need to comply with National Minimum Wage though, so that would put your costs up as £25 is below NMW for 6 hours work (NMW is currently £5.93 an hour for someone aged over 21). NMW rises to £6.08 an hour in October 2011, so I suggest you come to some agreement to pay whatever you consider is reasonable above £6.08

As they would be your employee, you can request that they do certain things, such as not having the TV on all the time but to ration it a bit. Your DD may also be even more happy as she is staying at home. You could still sleep at home during that day, though noise does travel.

Just something that may be worth considering, should you wish to continue using this childcare provider.

Mellowfruitfulness · 18/06/2011 11:23

I can completely understand why you chose this child minder, and don't like the aggressive and critical comments on here. It sounds like your life is pretty difficult anyway, and you have come up with an imaginative and - in theory - perfectly reasonable system for educating and looking after your daughter.

If you decide you have made a mistake with this particular childminder - in spite of the fact that your DD is happy there - because she is watching too much TV, you could do with some help in getting out of it. There are some fantastic CMs out there, so you could ask around/do the research that others on here have suggested. But again, maybe all that is needed is for you to voice your concerns to your present child minder, or give her some advice.

mummyloveslucy · 18/06/2011 11:08

To the people who say I don't care who I send her too, I'm sending her to someone I know!! Not a stranger! I didn't feel comfortable picking a nomber out of a book, then confusing my daughter by dragging her round different peoples houses day in day out until we'd worked through the whole list. I always have my daughters best interests at heart, believe it or not, I don't care!

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mummyloveslucy · 18/06/2011 10:55

Thanks beautifulgirls! Smile

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mummyloveslucy · 18/06/2011 10:53

She's not there so that I can sleep either, she's there so that DH and I can have a day together on our own.

Home ed can be very draining, especially with a child with SEN's. We need to take a small amout of time for ourselves every week, to re-charge in order to give our daughter our best. We are doing a fantastic job of raising and educating her, but everyone needs a break at some point. I'm not happy for her to sit in front of the TV for all that time, so as soon as I found out I asked for advice. (Wish I hadn't bothered now!) I'm going to seek out alternatives for her because I want to be able to relax on my day off knowing that she's happy and getting some interaction.

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