Mindee very difficult sleeper!

so pleased gardenpixies.. hope it continues and well done to you for perservering...

not sure most of the negative comments towards you were from cms. because . unless you are one, its impossible to understand the nature and complexities of running this business.... well done again..

Just to add a sleep comment, I have 4 dc, they have all slept for 45 mins at 930 (an hour and a half after they wake) until they were 12m, 12m, 14m, 14m, then another 2 to 2 1/2 hours after lunch. My eldest girl now 7 slept after lunch til she was nearly 5, my 5 yo ds til he was 4, my 3 yo and 16mo still sleep after lunch. So from my experience as a mother I don't think up to 3 hours sleep a day is unusual.

Gardenpixie I have been trying to post for a couple of days. You have received some unfair comments and I don't understand why. I'm a CM and a mother to a very bad sleeper. My DS2 is 19 months old and it's been hellish on the sleep front. Since he started walking he has become much easier to nap during the day and nights are getting there. It's such hard work looking after an overtired child. My DS wakes at 5am most days. He needs to sleep again after a couple of hrs and then naps after lunch. He really dislikes his cot for daytime nap but very settled when asleep on the sofa. We have finally found a system that works.

I'm glad to read your mindee is making good progress and well done for being so patient.

Started typing this around lunchtime when I had no mindees here then had to go so there may have been more posts since I started this........

I don't understand why some posters have been negative towards gardenpixie???? I don't AT ALL see where it suggests that she's trying to get a 3 hour break, it sounds to me like she has one very overtired mindee and needs some help and also wants to help the parents! Yes, some children DON'T need much sleep but this mindee is displaying signs of tiredness and the poor thing probably isn't sleeping as OVERtired. I've come across this before and totally sympathise with you. I agree that it sounds like with a 5.30am wake up time, they probably need a short sleep pretty early in the morning to prevent them getting SOOOO tired that they won't sleep later? I've had one mindee who was pretty bad at home in the night etc. that they went to a proper sleep clinic which really helped. If they often get up say 5 times in the night, there may possibly some underlying problem??? Have they been referred to a HV to get some feedback there? That's what I'd suggest to start with and maybe have some kind of sleep diary so you know how the previous night was before you have them again?

As for the variation comment.......why is it that people automatically jump on people as if they haven't got one. I'm sure this CM has a variation, I certainly don't feel the need to write 'I had/have a variation' whenever I talk about my mindees (and loads here know I had a 10 wk old, 8 month old, 17 month old and 18 month old at one point). I just felt it was said in a way that suggested she was going over her numbers and I think a polite check would have been more appropriate!

Anyway, off my soapbox now. OP, most of us here can see that you are trying to help and are here to help you if we can :) x

Gosh, I have understood from the beginning that op was trying her best to make that little child able to have a nap so he could refresh and happy for the rest of the day. Why was it so hard to understand ?? SHE is doing her best !

I think the cm has come in for some unfair critisism here.. shes just asking for advice after all..

my actual advice to you is if the child is winding you up this much and you feel very stressed about this then i think it would be best to give notice for both of your sakes.

the non cms on here have to understand how isolating this job can be.. a difficult, crying continually toddler is not nearly so difficult to handle in a nursery situation where they are passed around.. staff get breaks.. a cm doesnt get this luxury..

best of luck to you

I'm not a childminder but a parent, it sounds that gardenpixies32 is trying her hardest to help the parents.

My little one 17 months old doesn't sleep at the childminder at all (20 minutes for him is nothing), when I take him home he is a nightmare, he cries wants only to be hugged and being with me, taking care of him only him. But when we are on Fridays together he sleeps 3 hours a day.

Personally I would appreciate if someone was making any effort, but unfortunately I am not that lucky.

Have I got this right, you have four children in total, a three year old, two good sleepers and the bad sleeper. I hope you have a variation!

I care for a 9month old, she only needs 45 - 60 mins all day. She gets here at 8 and goes at 6, and only needs one nap after lunch.

My own DS only needed about that much sleep at a year old

Sorry if you have already tried this, but what about a story cd to listen to? Some of my mindees like to have a cd on at naptime - it seems to drown out sounds of the other children etc, esp something with a droning voice - I have a great Winnie the Pooh one! I also shut the blinds and drape a sheet over the buggy.. will post again if I think of anything else
Keep trying!

Could you just hold him for his whole sleep after he's been rocked so that he doesn't wake if you put him in the cot? I understand you have other things to do... but gradually maybe you could put him down?

Or, if the mother is willing to try some sleep training with a bit of crying while you do... but that is another can of worms, isn't it! I'm sure I'll get told off for that in a few minutes . I don't believe in Cry it Out, btw. Just for the record before anyone pounces!

sorry gardenpixie, I only shared the story of the mother I know who switched to nursery because you said:
"I am thinking maybe I just cant care for him anymore but his mother is lovely and I dont want to let them down"
So I wanted to encourage you to keep trying at it (I'm glad to hear that you are! :) ) because I know how awful this mother felt when cm gave up on her. But her cm, sadly, didn't even try to work around it, just gave notice because she said she couldn't handle her dd not sleeping enough :(

Yep, I can understand that! Im going to be really honest - this thread made me feel really angry! The child in question TBH is prob better off not in her care unless she changes her attitude. Maybe the c minder is inexperienced and might have a think and change? You cant beat a good childminder but when bad practice happens I can see why someone would lose confidence and go to a nursery x

Amy -sadly I know someone who had to switch from cm to nursery because cm said that she couldn't deal with her 1yo not napping enough.
She was very upset because preferred the cm setting. But didn't feel she could place her trust in another cm
This makes me because I am very pro-cm.

Hi - Ive looked after loads of children over years - I thought I knew everything and was the best childminder in the world!I had a great routine then I got a 9 month old baby. I could tell him till he's blue in the face that he needs a sleep cos he's so tired! I rocked him, sang to him, took him for a walk, really did everything I could. I still had a very angry, screaming tired baby! I nearly gave the parents notice because of this and I felt stressed and wondering what I was doing wrong! He was never going to sleep so I would do my routine of playgroup with the other children etc and then put him down for a sleep after lunch.I put him in the buggy for a sleep- (he screamed - had 10 mins sleep then screamed more), but he was safe and I needed half an hour to have my lunch and even go to the loo!! I had the most difficult year and some how we've got through it and hes an exceptionally clever boy - has 30 mins sleep now but that does him fine! The beauty of you being a childminder is that you can treat the children as individuals and although it would be lovely to have 3 hours off every day - you can use that time to have one to one with him which he would enjoy?

Ive never heard of it being normal for 3 hours a day - and I think you are wrong to expect that. In fact I think you are REALLY WRONG-this could be half the problem. You are not a baby sitter! However Its my opinion and I'm giving it to you with the best intentions. I'm not saying it for any reason other than for you to reflect on your practice and maybe change it?? We are Early Years Professionals remember that.
Childminding is a tough job and if you come on here for advice then obviously you care x

If he wants to play and not sleep, could you engage him in some quiet play while the others sleep? Maybe he'll start sleeping better at night if he's not getting naps and then it won't be a problem if he only sleeps 30 minutes? Maybe it will just take some time.

Also I meant rock him then keep holding him for his sleep (don't put him in cot or pram).

My DS hasn't had this problem at cm but I do know a few babies who dropped all naps by 13-15 months. They just eventually learned to make the most of night sleep

nbee84- desperation was the mother of invention I think I talked to his key worker about where he slept at night and they had the dog basket as one of the toys so she thought she'd give it ago as it was more bed like and she could snuggle next to him. Once he could crawl he used to take himself off to it, like eastmidlandsnightnanny said (am glad other nurseries use it and it is not just my odd children who like them.)

Just remembered another trick I used with mine. When they are clearly fighting sleep I'd lie them on their back and lay next to them. I'd put their hands up next to their ears (in the classic fast asleep baby pose) and just gently hold them there. Not pushing down but just enough to stop them thrashing round. It is hard to explain but it seemed to help them drop off. Usually takes a minute of crying, 5 mins of fussing and then they would fall into a proper sleep. I could then sneak off and they would stay sleeping for much longer than if I'd got them asleep elsewhere and then put them down in the bed.

It's probably taking him so long to get to sleep because he's massively overtired (speaks from experience).

Do you rock him in a dark room? Maybe with a bit of white noise or something? Does he have a nap routine (only has to be short - sleep bag, song)? DS would never nap in a room that was even dim - had to be black out blinds!

Or when you rock him the pushchair, can you get a blackout cover for it? We've got one like this

with his early start, he probably needs a nap around 8.30/9am. Can you engineer an outing so you take them for a walk (not sure how with three so 2, but you must go out?) at this time. He'll probably drop off then.

DS is 20 months and still likes a short morning snooze on ocassion. I've read that around 18 months is the average time for toddlers to drop the morning nap.

A montesorri nursery we looked at and a friends baby goes to only has the soft dog baskets now and no cots as the babies preffered them and those that could crawl/walk often take themselves off and sleep in them apparently!!

My son is 9 and 1/2 mths and has been at childminders for 2wks and did once a week settling in for a month and he would only sleep in car seat for her rocked initially but would sleep for good period of time and now he will go down in travel cot for her and slepps for 45-60mins once or twice a day. Whereas at home for me rarely naps in cot but will sleep in pushchair or car seat if we have been out for 90mins once in morning and once in afternoon.

If a child doesnt fall asleep within 10-15mins I tend to think they are not tired and the screaming is due to a mixture of boredom and get me the hell out of here!!!

I would try the rocking for 10-15mins and if no sucess play with him or give him some toys to play with and if he seems tired later on try him again for a nap

you say he wakes the other 2 with his screaming so would be inclined not to try for too long as at least the others sleep -let them sleep and let him play.

many toddlers ie- over 12mths start to only need a nap after lunch around 12/1ish and often only for 1 and half -2hrs

As a childminder would be great if they all napped at same time so you had a break but while they are sleeping he could be playing alone while you had 10mins to self for cup of tea over seeing him.

Also when you only have 1 awake surely its a nice time to have some 1:1 time with a child.

My Dd only ever slept 30 mins at a time, 3 times a day reducing to 2 times by 1 yr old and none at all by 2. At nursery they just let her play while the others slept.

Ds on the other hand did the long nap thing you are aiming for.

Are you confined to just one room or can you use another room for sleeps? I am not sure about what happens in childminding with regards to using other rooms.
Sounds like he is worried about missing out. If he can see/hear the other babies then he may be distracted.