Nanny pay when DS starts nursery?

newtothisinlondon- I see loads of those types of jobs being offered on gumtree etc, repeatedly. I suspect that the families find it hard to get decent nannies for those hours. At the very least I would expect that you would need to pay a higher per hour rate to make up for the part time hours.

we are contemplating this for when our son starts pre-school at 3. I wouldn't ask our nanny to take any pay cut - she will still be on call for us.

We have a similar situation with only one child attending nursery 2.5 hours a day. By the time you've factored in the commute (knock off at least 30 minutes, maybe longer) there's 2 hours maximum left in the day when she's not looking after him. My son no longer naps so that gives the nanny some time for a break plus some time to do nursery duties including his washing, ironing, tidying and/or cooking some food for him. Then, if he's ill or the nursery has an inset day (or during the school holidays) she's available to look after him for the full day where required. Therefore, we didn't reduce her pay but just explained how we wanted her to spend the time when he was at nursery. I would definitely expect her to do jobs for us though though rather than viewing the time as an extended break purely for herself.

Would the nanny never be expected to do drop-offs at nursery, or cover illness?

well - nothing to stop you from advertising it with those hours and seeing what you get, i suppose. if people are interested when it is advertised like that, then you have lost nothing.

WishIwas - I wanted to clarify as it is not 9 hours of work. The nanny could hypothetically do something else for the other 2.5 hours all year round. For example - nanny could find a cleaning job to fit in the gap, or a mother's help role for a certain activity and is happy to have hours at that time each day. I know it is unlikely - but the reason I am trying to clarify is to understand salary expectations (as opposed to what working hours I need).

grabaspoon - she and DS will be able to go to the same wrap-around provider, who also does holiday cover. there are several locally who offer wraparound for nursery and school. and yes, i will be charged for a full-time space for DD and a before / after-school place for DS but it will still be a LOT cheaper than a nanny. i didn't want to have to co-ordinate pick ups from 2 different places for DS and DD, which is why we have gone for the nanny option for now.

and yes i will have to be off with her when they're sick (or ex will if it's his day). one of those things.

the nanny option is by far and away the best solution. but it is so expensive (for me at least) that i can only justify doing it when there isn't another viable option.

WishIwas

What childcare will you choose?

• She won't be at nursery 13 weeks of the year - so you would need someone to do full time during these periods.
• What is she's ill/nursery has to shut unexpectedly/she gets sent home - who will look after her?

As an under 5 a childminder will probably charge you for a full time place as she won't be able to fill the gaps that DD is at nursery?

Genuinely interested

newtothisinlondon - isn't it just 9 hours per day, whether the child is in nursery or not? or do you not need her to start until after nursery on the days your child is in nursery?

when my DD is 3, she will go to school nursery for 5 sessions a week. at that point i will need to change my child care arrangements as i am not paying the nanny to look after DD when she is in the school nursery for 2.5 hours every day. and until then the nanny takes DD to activities such as music bugs, social tots, play group etc. none of these are essential, but they all assist DD in socialisation, learning norms of behaviour (circle time etc), sitting and listening to instructions and sharing with other kids. as far as i am concerned, that's enough for her at the moment, and at 2 yrs old, i don't think she need any other form of structured childcare / education.

I asked a similar qu (do I need to pay while dd is at nursery) - thx to HSMM for referring me to this thread. Except I am setting a new contract - no pay cut - which would be 6.5 hours per day excluding nursery or 9 hours per day inclusive. I was wandering what nannies are expecting as they quoted hourly rates rather than daily rates. The thoughts here are very helpful - but would the facts change if stated upfront?

Why do parents even consider that a nanny would accept a pay cut for hours that she would need to be on call. I see so many jobs advertised now for before and after school but nobody wants them because it's impossible to fit another job around the hours.

I still have my living cost and bills to pay whether a child is at nursery or not and if I didn't need to earn a living wage I would do voluntary work with children or spend time with the children of my family and friends. This nanny would find it impossible to get a job for the hours you state and like others I don't think a two year old needs to be in nursery.

TheOriginalFAB - perhaps I didn't word that well.

I was paid a flat rate; during term time I received the same for working fewer hours - even fewer when the youngest started school - as I did for working 10 hours a day during the 13 weeks of school holiday.

As an hourly rate, it was pretty good for the hours I actually worked in term time; for the 10+ hours a day I worked in the holidays it was around minmum wage level.

As an employer I must say I am shocked that people even consider docking pay when a child starts nursery/pre-school. One of the things my (excellent) nanny agency asked me at the outset was what age we were thinking of starting our little girl at pre-school/playgroup and what we would want the nanny to do during that time. It was pointed out to me that if I was planning for her to start nursery of some kind at 2 (which I am not but anyway) and wouldn't want to pay a nanny for the hours she was at nursery I should consider whether it was worth having a nanny at all, given that the period when the nanny would have full-time charge would only be about 18 months.

At the moment my daughter sleeps for up to 2 1/2 hours in the middle of the day, which is almost as long as the nursery session mentioned above and given that she doesn't do pick up or drop off probably amounts to the same amount of "free" time. Which she uses to tidy, cook, do washing, plan outings, arrange playdates and quite often send me an email about what they're doing. And I suspect she also probably has a cup of tea and watches a bit of telly, which I don't mind in the slightest as I know how hard she works the rest of the day!

If you choose to employ a nanny I think you have a responsibility to treat him or her as you would want to be treated. I work in a job where a lot of my work is created by other people. If I don't have anything to do I will be expected to find something or will expect my boss to give me something to do. I would not expect to have my salary docked for the time when I am at a loose end through no fault of my own.

Apart from all the reasons that have been mentioned, there is also the break. I assume that your ds drops his naps soon? Then an hour break for the nanny (10hrs work day) wouldn't be unreasonable. Plus commuting to nursery.
If your son naps in the afternoon then, as others have suggested, ask the nanny to prepare some meals, iron ds clothes ets.

I think sending your reasons for sending your DC to nursery are fine - mine certainly benefited/benefits from the structured activities and socialising with a consistent group but DD does have days off sick (more so since she's with more children). You need to factor that in, OP. Also, could your nanny simply do more around the house (if her child-related activities do not fill in the time)?

I'd definitely not dock her pay unless you want her to leave and then you'll have to cover sick days etc yourself.

Agree with others. The done thing is to give her some child related stuff to do, and not cut the hours/pay. As your toddler grows there will be more and more for her to do (cook food, pick up birthday presents, organise play dates, tidy toys/clothes, etc.)

Why are you sending him to nursery? Surely nanny can give him any social interaction you desire through play groups and other activities. I've always thought one of the great benefits of having a nanny was being able to prescribe the activities I liked, whereas a nursery sets their own schedule and you just take what you get.

with our nanny we gave her choice of:

1. doing extra random stuff to fill the time on top of normal nanny duties (eg preparing and freezing food, checking if we are running out of food stuffs and replacing, nippign to post-office, that kind of thing, and even a bit of PA stuff)
2. moving to a flexi schedule where she did fewer hours overall for same salary (ie she effectively got a payrise) but where she added in a night of babysitting instead of hanging round in the morning with no-one there (when they went to school this switched into a schedule where nanny did 30 hours during term time and 50 hours during holidays)

Cutting salary is never the done thing.

This was my boss's debate as well, I told them that I was expecting the same pay as I still needed to do other things such as cooking, changing beds,etc and when child is ill/half term they would need me. Their answer first was that they would pay me of course when child is ill or it's half term, my answer was that I wasn't going to be available for those 3 hours than. She can't expect me to be available short notice and when she wishes-especially as it would have been in my contract that I had those 3 hours 3 times a week unpaid.

It turns out that my charge needed 2 months to settle in nursery, I had to pick him up every day early, after about an hour, than a month half term started and now he supposed to be back at nursery but missing out as he has temperature. I had only one afternoon, 3 hours off, so far when he was at nursery but I fill it with cooking for next day or for following week.

FAB the job was different wasn't it? For 39 weeks the dc were in school and s getting wages for that is I suppose a bit less work thatn the 13 weeks she had the dc's on school holidays, it's a bit like working part time for your wages for most of the year then working more hours for the 13 weeks.

I am looking at childcare just now for my dc for later in the year and wouldn't expect to NOT pay a potential nanny for the time any of them were at preschool etc because they would be the ones that were on call so to speak, they would be the care in the holidays and the nusrsery point of contact should they become ill or school had shut for any reason. If you don't pay the nanny for that period then you are effectively on call for that time as you are not paying her so she doesn't have to have made herself available to you in that time especially if she did find another job in there somewhere so you would also have to find alternative care during school holidays as well as she is no longer contracted for those 3 hours either.

luckylou - if you received the same pay whether you had the kids for a few hours or 10 hours, why was it different for 39 weeks than the other 13?

Just what everyone else has said really. It is not the 'done thing' to dock the nanny's pay if a child is at nursery/pre-school/an activity during the day.

I agree with create. A 2 year old really doesn't need nursery for a 'social life'. Playgroup and playdates should be sufficient and I assume your nanny already takes him to those? If she doesn't ask her too. If you wait until he's 3 you get your nursery funding and you're entitled to 15hrs a week free (or massively reduced depending on the cost of the nursery).

I don't understand the need for your child to go to nursery to socialise does your nanny not do playdates/groups/activities with other children?

I am a nanny and my charge went to nursery 3 mornings a week 8-1 however I was still paid for my time as I was available to work and should the child be ill, the nursery be shut due to bad weather, DC having appointments in those times ie dev check etc then I was there. Had I not been paid and had a job to fit in to those hours then my boss would have had to go to work from 7.30-8 then take time off to care for the child before I came back at 1 to continue my day.

During the time DC was at nursery I did art folders/batch cooking/tidy toys/pick up new toys from toy library etc.

When I was a nanny I received the same pay during term time when two children were at school and one at part-time (morning) nursery as I did during the school holidays when I had them all for 10 hours a day.

It was an ok, but not great, income for 39 weeks a year and a pretty crap one for 13 weeks.

As you've observed, there is no way your nanny could make up any loss of income during the morning - she would have to find a job for around two and a half hours a day, term time only.

No, she won't expect a slight pay cut; and you are likely to lose her if you try to change her contract

I would question whether a 2yo needs 3 mornings at nursery for a "sociallife" TBH.

IME they're not ready to socialise until at least 3 and then mostly play alongside, rather than "with" other children. Does your Nanny take DS to any toddler/activity groups? If so I'd leave it at that until at least 3, preferably 3.5 and build up to 5 mornings just before he starts school. Save the Nursery money, I don't think cutting the Nanny's pay is an option.

If my boss cut my hours and pay I'd find another job.