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Original poster

CMs - Charges (struggling with ever increasing food prices)

31 replies

namechangingforthis · 19/04/2011 09:57

Hi all

I don't know what to do and was wondering if you guys could help me decide what I should do for the best?

I currently offer an all inclusive service so my fee per hour includes all drinks, snacks, breakfast, lunch & dinner if needed, nappies, wipes, outings, sun cream etc.

Unfortunately my dh lost his job a year and half ago and is still out of work :( He was receiving Job Seekers Allowance but this has stopped and although our household income was only £9k last year, we're not entitled to means tested JSA as I work more than 24 hours a week!

We have huge debts, a lot of which is as a result of problems which we couldn't afford to get fixed so put on credit cards etc (boiler problems, gas leaks, car problems etc etc). Unfortunately we've got to the point that we're a minimum of £150 down per month and running out of credit card and overdraft facility. Once these have gone, we're stuffed :( Now this isn't the parents problem, it's ours HOWEVER if we can't afford the mortgage, eventually we could potentially loose the house therefore meaning the end of my childminding business :( This WILL affect the parents.

Soooo, I'm thinking long and hard about the whole situation and how we can reduce costs. One thing I've noticed is the huge increase in food shopping, it's amazing how much stuff has gone up and I just can't afford to keep buying the 8 different fruits, all the special cereal bars and all that stuff, it's costing me a fortune and my food bill is huge.

One parent yesterday insisted I should go back to charging for food and then parents can choose whether or not to use mine or send their own. They said that the parents are saving loads currently by me supplying all this food at the same cost (I didn't increase my fees this year like I usually do).

WWYD in this situation? Should I go back to charging for meals? I never charged for snacks in the past but I used to charge for meals a couple of years ago.

My fee review takes place annually in Sept/Oct, I notify them of all changes by the end of October and the increase starts from 1st Feb the following year. On 3rd October I notified parents I wasn't increasing at that time and this is part of what I put in the letter:

I am pleased to confirm that although the cost of living continues to rise, I have decided to postpone any increase in fees for the time being and will therefore not be making the usual increase from February 2011. Instead I will review my fees once again in February 2011 and if I feel at that stage an increase is necessary, I will notify you and the increase will be from June 2011.

I was hoping to continue with no increase (and to be honest, I'd forgotten I'd mentioned I'd review again in Feb Blush) but I just cannot afford to continue like this if I want to keep my business (unless by some miracle dh gets a job soon!). Obviously I never confirmed anything in February to say yes or no to increasing in June and if I decide to increase after all, I'm still giving more than a month's notice......what do you think? Would that be ok? Tbh, I don't know what other option I have :(

My head is all over the place, I really don't want to upset parents when times are tough but I don't want to loose my home either. What do you all think?

TIA :)

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lisa1968 · 02/05/2011 21:11

Hi.I stopped supplying food 3 years ago.I spent ages shopping for it(the kids all ate different things),preparing it (when I couldve spent that time with the kids)and,usually,throwing half of it away.The crunch came when ,during an inspection,my Ofsted inspector asked to see my fridge temp records(??),daily menu,2 weekly menu,food certificates,and'Had i done a fridge course????
I thought S** this,gave my parents 2 months notice with regards to not providing food anymore(giving the above reasons) and asked them to supply their own and not one of them complained.and after seeing what was in the kids lunchboxes,I wondered why i bothered with all the nutritious stuff I gave them.
Stop supplying nappies too!!What happens if-like I have-you end up with 3 babies and you've said you'll supply nappies??It'll cost a fortune-money that you could use for your own children!!
Feed your child when he needs feeding-your mindees will just have to understand that its his mealtime,not theirs.
I know its tough-my hubby has been out of work for 16 months-but you have to think about your own family first.The only thing i supply is wipes-its your general love and care of the children that matters,not what 'material'things you offer.i dont know any 'minders who give food and they certainly dont supply nappies etc.
Sit down and compose a friendly letter explaining the situation-i told mine what Ofsted had said and that,as I wasn't a catering organisation I wasnt prepared to do what they(Ofsted) wanted so i wouldnt be supplying food anymore.Dont drop your fees-pound for pound,theyve probably done pretty well out of what youve fed their kids in the past.
It'll be a huge weight off your mind,and what choice do the parents have?

onadietcokebreak · 02/05/2011 20:31

Definately ask for nappies/sun cream

Would supply wipes though

babybaabaa · 02/05/2011 20:29

cross posted - best of luck Smile

babybaabaa · 02/05/2011 20:27

I don't know if this will help but I do the same as you and offer an all inclusive fee. I have noticed too that it is certainly getting more and more expensive.
I find that a bowl of the value frozen mixed fruit you can get from Tesco with homemade breadmaker bread makes a good snack. I also sometimes use value tins of fruit eg peaches, apricots, pears or value sultanas.
I also have a lakeland yoghurt maker which makes a big pot of natural yoghurt daily for the cost of a carton of UHT milk. The children adore it with a sprinkling of brown sugar.
Afternoon snacktime is often homemade popcorn or fresh homemade jam tarts/scones and I have recently been making homemade juice lollies which the children love.
Rather than asking for food money I would suggest saying that from now on all nappies and wipes must be provided by parents.

Original poster
namechangingforthis · 02/05/2011 20:14

Sorry for the delay again. Was off last week and went to Wales for a couple of days with my SIL (she has a lovely holiday home there if anyone ever fancies it Wink). Anyway, been really busy since I got back, including my change of fees letter which has finally been sent! :)

HSMM - yeah, I think it will be easier when ds2 is older but he simply won't eat that late yet.

DMO - :) my trips are only once a week and the same, not over £5 each usually. There are plenty of other things to do which don't cost money anyway :) As for bulk buying and using the freezer - this is what I already do and I can't add any more as both freezers are always full! I get through bread very quickly like you I guess! I already buy a lot of supermarket own brands but will try more and more, it'll all add up :)

Oops, got to go soon but thanks to the others who've posted too :)

In the end I made the following changes:

  • Hourly rate up by 10p per hour as an interim increase, next review at the usual time
  • £2 per evening meal (sort of wanted to put people off Wink)
  • Own suncream to be provided
  • Still no charge for normal outings but if I want to do a bigger trip, I'll ask for a contribution and only take them if all parents are happy with it.
  • No change to overnight care fee

Am also going to try my very very best to reduce the bills thanks to all your tips :) Tried the big pot of natural yoghurt thing and ds2 didn't like it so will be interesting! LOL

OP posts:
lollipopmother · 27/04/2011 21:49

I recently put my fees up (for new business) by 50p per hour and charge £1.50 for food, it's already made a huge difference. I haven't been going to soft play much, and I've cut down on pricier fruit (strawberries, blueberries, raspberries) as for the price it doesn't go far. I get bananas and raisins as main fruits with fancier fruits occasionally. I use own brand Cheerios as a snack quite a lot and the kids really like it.

sunnydelight · 27/04/2011 05:14

It sounds like you are a fantastic CM but you have to make it work for you.

I would charge a small increase - I think it would be totally reasonable to write to your parents and explain that you didn't increase in February as you had said as you were hoping not to, but you have realised that you cannot continue and charge the same rates.

You really have to cut the food choices. Toast or cereal only for breakfast - a choice of 2/3 home brand cereals is plenty. Ditto fruit - buy what is in season only, again there is no need to give so much choice. Buy large tubs of yoghurt and portion them out. You don't have to make a big deal about this to parents - you are still providing snacks/meals.

Suncream is expensive, just say that you can no longer provide it and ask each family to send in a named bottle/tube.

I would also either stop expensive outings or ask parents to cover the costs.

If you did all of the above I would think it would make a big difference to your finances without alienating parents. I would actually make it clear in the increase letter that these are changes you need to make in order to continue providing your service.

dmo · 26/04/2011 13:23

hi namechange Wink
i do know your situation and feel for you you really need to soert it our before as you say you have no home

I have a policy that everyone bring their own suncream with their name and a hat to keep at my house incase the sun comes out Grin

When planning school hol days out i find 4 days where there is no cost ie bug hunt on the park etc and one that cost and just ask parents for £x towards the weeks activities (i dont mind spending upto £5 a week on the child but over that when you have 6 children it gets too expensive)

when shopping i buy loafs/crumpers etc on offer and frezze them then they can be toasted when needed

parents bring their own nappies and wipes which i write the childs name on the packs and when they run low i just ask parents to replace them

i did try bring your own food once but it didnt work well i find children eat better when they are all eating the same foods you could ask parents to pay £ per day (the same cost of a school dinner ie our school charges £1.85 per day for lunch)

try and buy supermarkets own produces

HSMM · 26/04/2011 09:32

Answered the snack time question on the other thread.

It is tricky to work around your own children if they have an early bed-time. We always wanted DD to have tea with DH and me, so letting the mindees eat in front of her wasn't fair. Her bed-time was always about 7-7.30pm though. I used to work til 6.45 and then either I cooked tea, or DH had arrived home and started it.

Original poster
namechangingforthis · 26/04/2011 08:39

Sorry I never got back to this when you've taken the time to reply, I was busy sorting some of my other problems out to try and sort this mess out! I'm off this week and so will be making a decision and contacting parents soon.

HSMM - I already do my snack around 3.30/4pm which isn't a sandwich but enough other stuff. I could change this to a sandwich or bigger snack with them having dinner at home, I'm just dead nervous about parents being unhappy about this. Tbh, it would also affect our own bedtime routine quite a lot as ds2 if often ready for his bed by 6.30pm. Will definitely have a think about this one.

Unfortunately my dining area isn't out of the way as such so it would be unfair to feed mine and not others (the dining table is in the kitchen which you have to go through to get to the playroom.

Can I just ask at snack time whether you let them choose out of what you have or do you just plate up what's on offer and they take what they want from that? I do a bit of both at the moment but wondering if it should be me who always decides? I.e. after their meal they get fruit and yoghurt and I've always asked which fruit they'd like (out of the 8 listed on my other thread). And how much do you allow them to have? I.e. one piece of fruit or more?

TIA :)

OP posts:
mrsthomsontobe · 20/04/2011 07:49

i provide snacks and lunch but not an evening meal. when my daughter was a baby she always has her dinner while the children were still here as babies have dinner around 4/4.30. as she got bigger we were busier and busier so she ended up not having dinner till the children left. after a while i noticed this want ideal as she was to tired or had clubs to go to after 6. so issued a letter stating that i would be giving my daughter dinner and my assistant would be feeding her children at 5. if parents wanted to bring something that could be heated up then i would happily heat it up and serve it at 5. a few parents started sending things others said no its ok they will get dinner when they go home. it works well. i just send my daughter to the dinning room to eat while the other children continue to play

HSMM · 20/04/2011 07:47

I don't charge for any outings, but I know lots of minders do. I have children here til 6 who have a family tea at home. A cup of milk and a snack - maybe a small sandwich - at about 4 keeps them going. Then you and they can have a quiet family tea at 6.

Original poster
namechangingforthis · 19/04/2011 23:25

Branchingout - your being blunt is fine, I take no offense :). I will say that the only reason we're in such a mess is because we have a HUGE debt which is costing us HUNDREDS each month. What I get from parents is actually quite a lot as mentioned earlier. So yes, we're in a bad situation and yes, I will sort my prices out but it most certainly isn't my business not earning me money that's the problem, it's my husband loosing his job and not finding one 18 months later that's the problem. We had debt before from past problems but it's just escalated. I will most definitely reduce what I provide but I do charge at the higher end for my area so felt I wanted to offer that bit more considering they are paying more. But the parent who said about me charging extra for food was saying this as we'd had a night out and a heart to heart and when she realised our money problems, she suggested I charged for food. It also doesn't impact them as much as they only have an evening meal once a week. I would usually have had my fees increased in Feb but the families were so very supportive when I had problems last year (dh's operations, we split up in between them both and that was hard, I was having time off for brain/spine MRI scans, other neurology studies etc) that I felt due to this, I shouldn't increase at that point.

Anyway thanks for your input, I appreciate your comments :)

HSMM - I don't think they should have to wait for their evening meal when they are with me until 6pm, some are too young imo. Plus I don't want my own children to have to wait that late for a meal, especially my 2 year old, he would be moaning and moaning for his dinner and he's ready for his bed shortly after mindees go so don't think that would work. Breakfast more doable although I have one who comes at 7am every morning and they live about 15 min drive away so I can't see them managing that, especially as they have a hard time getting them up as it is! Plus again, my boys would end up eating whilst they are here so probably not fair. But happy to ask them to supply food or pay a small fee and then it's up to them. Can I ask something.....I know you've put your prices up not that long ago and also charge by the day, with your all inclusive service do you charge for ANY outings? I.e our local soft play? I pay for these things but have now said I need money towards kidzone if we go again as it's a rip off now!! Shame as the kids love it there.

Hope what I've said makes sense, no time to proof read as not long been home and loads to do before bed.

Thanks again :)

OP posts:
HSMM · 19/04/2011 22:24

A few ideas to think about:

  • small rate increase
  • can breakfast/dinner be done at home (with small snacks mid morn and mid pm)
  • fruit/veg on special offer (this should give you a variety of seasonal food)
  • parents to pay for pricier outings

Remember, you do not need to provide ALL their nutrition, or ALL their 5 a day.

Hope this helps.

BranchingOut · 19/04/2011 21:28

Sorry if I was a bit harsh. But I wanted to be really blunt because your financial situation sounds frankly quite dire. If you are coming to the end of your credit then that is very precarious.

I do stand by what I said in that if this is costing you (you = the economic unit of you and your spouse) money then this is not worth your while. If you work all month and are £50 down at the end of it, then you may as well not have bothered and just given out £50 in the street instead.

Also, look at the messages the parents are giving you. One family wanted to pay you more, another family has pointed out that you should be charging for food - they know that they are gaining the advantage. Yet, they will continue taking the benefit of that until you stipulate otherwise because, nice people or not, we all have bills to pay.

I really hope your situation improves.

Original poster
namechangingforthis · 19/04/2011 17:01

Food thread

OP posts:
Original poster
namechangingforthis · 19/04/2011 16:21

Thanks all, just last quicky whilst dh does last bit of supervising whilst they're splashing in the paddling pool......dh was my full time assistant when he lost my job but lets just say it wasn't suited to him on a full time basis! Shame but I would have ended up killing him! Grin He needed an operation in April and needed at least 6 weeks off so that's when I decided enough was enough and that as it wasn't working, we'd call it a day. I got another variation and kept who I could (on reduced days) and explained that as he needed a long time off work, it wasn't going to work having him as my assistant. He then needed another operation (totally unconnected) in September so tbh, I'm pleased we left it as otherwise my good little business with a good rep would have become unreliable childcare. Tbh, dh is 15 years older than me and totally unfit and just couldn't keep up! lol.

Going to quickly start that other thread about food then must relieve him as he needs to pop out. I might not be back for a while as I'm out straight after work tonight and not back until late.

Thanks everyone for taking the time to post :)

OP posts:
Sidge · 19/04/2011 15:49

I'm a parent using a CM and don't expect her to provide food. If my DD is there all day I send her with a lunchbag and some fruit for snacks. I send a sports bottle of water or squash and if emptied the CM refills it at no charge.

I provide suncream, occasional nappies (DD2 has SN and is incontinent when asleep) but not wipes.

She takes them out to free activities such as the library craft sessions and the park and beach, and I pay extra if she wants to do a special trip.

Don't know if that helps at all, but just to let you know that not all parents expect or want an all-inclusive service and may be happier to pay say 4 pounds an hour but provide own food. I'm sure they would understand your situation given the current financial state most of us are in. If it's a toss up between sending your child with their own food or having to find a new CM I know which I'd prefer!

Booh · 19/04/2011 15:42

I am in the same situation regarding the food aspect.

It is costing me more and more each week in food!

The rates I charge are top end for where I live, I provide everything! But the amount I spend on food, trips etc mean that I am really not making that much money anymore (more often a tiny bit!) adding in the cost of fuel too!

I can't charge parents more, as they would go else where, I have no idea how the childminder down the road charges £1.75 less than me and still provide food. She never goes any where so I guess she saves money there.

Original poster
namechangingforthis · 19/04/2011 15:35

Dh on duty again (handy having him around sometimes Wink).

I can assure you this is a proper business for me, I may love doing it (well, not always but most of the time) but it's certainly not a hobby. My problem is more wanting to offer the best but I agree that yes, I've been offering too much. This started because I wanted my own children to have the variety (I could afford it then as dh was working and we didn't have this level of debt!) and of course I can't let my children have certain stuff but not the others. But times are tough and I've told my 8 year old that we simply can't keep buying expensive stuff so things will be changing. He's old enough to understand. My 2 year old will get the message eventually!!

This business always earnt me plenty of money (I get near or sometimes over £3k a month but of course that's before expenses) but I work very hard for it. The problem is my dh being out of work. The reason I didn't change things earlier was because it seemed unfair that my personal situation with dh being out of work should change what I offer to parents. Obviously now, I have no choice and yes, the price of food has gone up a lot and I haven't changed with that.

But I'm guessing you were trying to make me feel better? Wink

I was going to now ask what you all offer for snacks, what fruit you get in etc. but I think I should start a new thread for that. When I've done that, I will link it here. But in the meantime, feel free to continue with feedback re the charges :)

OP posts:
ChocolateCoveredChitChat · 19/04/2011 15:32

Good heavens! I'm sorry to put it so bluntly, but that is a ridiculously large choice to offer children. I'm a parent and I would be absolutely astounded if my CM offered that much variety!!!!

Definitely do a price increase. With the cost of food going up and the price of petrol you know you have no choice, really.

I prefer the CM preparing a meal - TBH I find it easier for my DS to try new foods when other children are eating them, so at the CMs is an ideal time and if everyone had their own meals which they brought in that wouldn't happen. (TBH, how difficult would you find it if Child A had a meal that Child B wanted?)

eastmidlandsnightnanny · 19/04/2011 15:21

You sound really lovely and hope I have such a good realtionship with the childminder when my 8mth old starts in the a mth time.

I think def only offer 2/3 cereals maybe weetabix and porridge as you can buy value range fairly cheap and then one other (buy whats on offer) and then offer toast, and buy value natural yogurt to add fruit to (or as a treat buy some value version of co-co pops and they can add these like the muller corners). You can occasionally have things like crumpets and pancakes as these are cheap enough but dont have them all the time - even scramled eggss on toast works out quite cheap as a filling breakfast. STOP BUYING THE EXPENSIVE CEREAL BARS THEY ARE A RIP OFF - search for hugh fearnlet whitting stall (prob spelt that wrong) cereal bar recipe and make with the children

Fruit should become a bit cheaper as more available in summer so tends to be cheaper.

Offer choice with in reason to the children ie - you can have x or y not what would you like.

Hope you manage to sort it all soon and good luck to your husband in his job search (as you sound so lovely perhaps other parents would want to use you and husband could become a full time assistant?!?!)

BranchingOut · 19/04/2011 14:40

Sorry, but you have to be practical here.

Of course the children love cereal bars, fromage frais, melon, strawberries etc, what child wouldn't? They are children and evolution means that they are going to seek out the tastiest and most enjoyable food!

You are supposed to be running a business. At the moment it is not a business, it is a hobby of looking after children for families you like. This hobby is costing you money each month.

While this is costing you money, they are out earning money. Who is winning here?

All the beers, cakes and choccy fingers in the world will not help you when you have baliffs at the door. Sorry to say, but at that point these lovely families will be dropping you like a hot brick.

Simplify your food:

Two cereals plus porridge
Ordinary fruit and 1 fancier fruit only twice a week.
Alternate fruit snacks with veg snacks like tomatoes or peeled carrot sticks.
No cereal bars unless you make them yourself during a cooking activity.
No more fromage frais - buy the big tubs of yoghurt and dish them up.

Provide breakfast and snacks. Charge for lunch and supper - give parents the option of providing their own if they wish.

Best wishes.

Original poster
namechangingforthis · 19/04/2011 12:36

I'd LOVE to have parents supply their own food but somehow don't think my lot will want to. I'm certainly happy to offer to do that but I don't want to really annoy those who haven't the time to sort this so would want to offer both options. If they provided food, I'd be happy to not increase my fees although not sure I'd want to lower my hourly rate, I want 1 set rate for all parents (but they WOULD be having a lower rate anyway as I'm probably going to have to up my fees a slight bit, I used to annually so they are used to it). Having said that, there is 1 family who pay me £5ph - I wasn't happy but they absolutely insisted ages ago as thought I was worth more. So for that family, I won't charge anything extra as that's only fair.

So how much (if I do) shall I increase? I usually up them by about 20p per hour but don't want to up so much this time as would seem unfair? I suppose it depends on whether or not I start charging for food? Oh I hate this!! :(

OP posts:
Panzee · 19/04/2011 12:06

My CM doesn't do food - I just send him in with all the food he needs. Would you consider this? I suspect you might have to lower your fees but you may save on the food.

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