Reasonable requests?

how do you know she doesnt wash her hands after going to the loo?

OP, I agree with Squiffy. Strongly suggest that you check what you have in your contract re the definition of misconduct and gross misconduct. For example, failing to do as you request, ie insubordination would fall within the definition of misconduct and disciplinary procedures would kick in.

If you saw this kind of behaviour in your own workplace, would it be acceptable? If not, then you need to question why you ate tolerating it at home, which isn't her home, it's her workplace. Yes, she is looking after your child, but you are her boss. She is not a friend and she is not doing you a favour so you need to be more firm and if she doesn't like it she can then decide to work elsewhere. Harsh when you see it written down but those are the conditions you work under so why is it different for her?

(waves to Squiffy)

Formal verbal warning required. Prepare it in advance and ensure you cover:

1. contactability at all times
2. professional behaviour expected at all times. Door slamming and moodiness and answering back not acceptable under any cirs
3. Cleanliness - washing hands as soon as she arrives home from outdoors, before preparing meals and after loo visits
4. Written journal of activities undertaken each day
5. Television limited to 30 minutes per day (or whatever)
6. Child to be taken out every day for at least 2 hours, with plan prepared by nanny of a daily activity schedule.

Tell her that you will formally review the situation with her in 1 month.

TBH all of the above would be done automatically by any good nanny anyway. so you are not asking for anything unusual.

Friend of mine had an older nanny- wonderful with babies but two activie toddlers not so good - ended up cutting her hours - with her agreement - and having boys in preschool/chilminder for the other time

Alsoo agree that maybe a slightly older nanny isn't as suitable for an active toddler as a baby. We have an agency nanny around that age I use sometimes for emergencys/holiday cover and while the girls love her she's also much more in the mold of colouring, cuddles and pottering in the house than our regular nanny who is much more out an about. I always notice on days we have her that the girls (nrly 2 and 4) have an excess on energy when I get home.

Threatening to withold a day's pay is wrong and illegal though and if I ever had an empoloer who acted like that towards me would scupper any respect I had for them, and chance of a decent working relationship.

IF I was you I'd:

1. buy a cheap pay as you go phone and keep it at your house, so its always fully charged. Say you expect it to be with her and switched on at all times and that if she can't answer immediately you expect to be called back within 15 mins to make it fair.

2. book her in to groups you want your DD to go to. Give her a timetable of what you want her to do when and make it non-negotiable. Try to make one of the groups one where you know people so you can get some feedback on how she behaved whilst there.

3. buy a week-to-view diary and ask her to write in there about what they've done, how it went etc.

4. have a contract review and say why you're not happy and that you expect her to stick to what you are now asking. You could set a date for review 2/4 weeks? Then you have the ground in place for dismissal if she doesn't get her act together.

I'd agree that nannies usually get to use their discretion over activities etc but surely they have to earn this? I have a nanny friend who has about 50:50 activities chosen by her/bosses each week - and her mummy boss rings her each day for a catch up, so its not unreasonable or unheard of. I do wonder why you've kept her for 2 years if she's this bad... has she got worse?

Do you always call to check-in at the same time, maybe you could arrange it so it would be at a time that she would be home and would be convenient for her? This was an arrangement that worked very well for myself and a previous employer and it was something that we just fell into.

As for the other stuff - if she wasn't doing her job according to her job description and contract then I would be thinking about disciplinary action.

the phone - she should be contactable, if you have spoken to her about it before she should answer her phone. However, I think calling every day is unecessary and would really get on my nerves! If you trust her with your child then you need to trust that she will call you if there is any problem.

washing her hands - how do you know she doesn't wash her hands??!!

TV - If you don't want your DD to watch the TV fine. Maybe the nanny was watching a little TV while your DD had a nap after lunch or something? I don't understand why you think she does it often, because you heard it in the background once! Could it have been the radio?

doesn't take her out - she should take her out. YANBU to be annoyed by that. Maybe specify a few groups/activities you would like your DD to attend.

she loves doing puzzles/drawing - how often is she doing this? I'm guessing most of the time you're at work so don't know exactly what she's doing? She may do this for 5/10 mins to encourage your DD to join in or something? I assume the baby isn't being forced to watch? If she hasn't wandered off to play with something else maybe she's interested/enjoys watching the nanny have a go and will later try herself.

I can understand that a moody nanny can be a nightmare. However, the fact that you thought docking a days pay because she didn't answer her phone was appropriate, suggests to me you might me a PITA. Maybe that's why she's moody! Two sides to every story and all that.

What were her references like?

I also think docking pay is probably illegal, and I'd have been pretty fuming if I was her too!

You should provide a work phone, maybe kept at your house, so she is always contactable.

How do you know she doesn't wash her hands by the way? Are you in the bathroom with her?

I guess maybe she is someone who is good at cuddling little babies, but not so great at running round with active toddlers. I think in your position I would be tempted to make her redundant and switch to a nursery.

Oh yes, I don't mean fire her on the spot, unless your contract allows for that. For example my contract lists insubordination as grounds for immediate dismissal. Her blatant refusal to do as you instruct would cross this line for me and I would say good bye. But, assuming your contract doesn't say this, I would install immediately a weekly review, a nanny diary, I would make specific requests on thing they can do/eat/etc. A nanny who thinks she doesn't need to listen to you (which is outrageous, incidentally) will not like this and will probably pack up. But, if she doesn't, you set the ground work for:

1. verbal warning
2. written warning
3. dismissal

You have every right to expect her to answer the phone whenever you ring it within her working hours (within reason) if you provide the phone as part of the job. I have a work mobile and a person mobile. I do not feel duty bound to use my personal mobile for work. But, if work rings me on my work mobile I am duty bound to pick it up.

You obviously can't withold pay as has already been said.

She is a terrible nanny. Get a new one. Don't look back. It is hard to say good bye. But, you must do what is best for your two year old. And I nanny who disregards your wishes every time you turn around is not contributing to a happy healthy surrounding for your daughter.

I had a nann ylike this once, and have emplyed 20-25 year olds ever since.

Starfish it's not that simple - nanny's been there over a year and has a certain amount of protection. Firstly OP needs a reason to get rid' of nanny.

One last thing - the first step in a disciplinary would be a verbal or written warning, I suspect, not docking a whole day's pay! What's in your contract?

I doubt she has another job but if it's always the same day then I might wonder.

I would be very irritated about a nanny's repeated failure to do something I asked which was not in principle at all unreasonable. - BUT

I also think in future you need to supply a pay as you go mobile with credits on it to have the most control over this.

She could be thinking this, but not know how to/not be confident about explaining herself to you. She could even not feel that confident with technology generally but doesn't want to admit this.

It's not unreasonable to call or text once a day for a child that age. I also think it's the sort of situation where one is tempted to call more to 'see' if the nanny has her phone - you feel more panicky not knowing if she has it. Whereas with a more reliable nanny in this area - someone you know you could always reach if you had to - the need to do this might be less.

The colouring/puzzles thing sounds weird and I also think that her idea of 'a little bit of TV' is probably not yours. Hearing your side of the story, I do think she is behaving overall like she intends to do what she pleases and that would piss me off.

But probably some lessons here for the new nanny, no?

Well I would not expect to have to use my phone for work purposes, I would expect my employer to provide one; even if it was just a cheap pay as you go. Ot use your landline as others have said.

On the other hand if you don't like the way she is looking after your child then find someone else.

OP doesn't say she's calling every day though. TBH I'd probably get 1 call or text a day from one of my old MBs asking me to do/check something or how things were going though. Never bothered me as such, just 30seconds to communicate something especially as I either didn't see her or the morning was a rush.

Suspicious if it is the same day each week...

Nanny walking wouldn't be so much of a bad thing based on what's been out here but not for withholding wages as that would be opening a big can of worms.

i wondered this nannyl

op says nanny doesnt go out much, so call her at home if not answering mobile

saying that, also agree with why you need to talk to nanny every day

as with nannyl, my mb rarely rings me, and if she does then normally to ask to take something out of freezer etc rather than check up on me

If shes at your house surely you can call your landline?

If you need her to have a working mobile then provide her with one, otherwise YABU

I dont understand why you need to call her every day to tbh. My bosses certainly NEVER called me during the day unless there was something very very important. Ok my phone was always on, and with me and id answer it, but i certainly would not like to be called every day (or even every week)... Perhaps thats why she doesnt answer it... espcially after 2 years!

I dont know many nannies who are called daily. Only when there is an issue that needs resolving now.

Not washing her hands is gross, but agree a bit tricky to bring up.

As for the telly.... its ok to not want the tv on, but a bit excessive to not want it on at all ever.
Agree it should not be on all day every day, but the odd program to watch together and discuss isnt really that bad surely?

Compleltely illegal to withold pay and unreasonable. Expect her to walk with no notice if you want to do that...
You pay her to look after your child.... not to be on the end of the phone

she isn't WigWamBam's MIL is she?

she sounds god-awful

get rid of her, I know it's hard but you will feel better, you will find someone lovely and dedicated and energetic and you will look back on this one and shudder

The nanny is 52, her habits are ingrained and I'd think it would be hard for her to change. Her attitude says loads. I certainly would not be happy with her. Difficult to get rid of her though, after all this time :(

You Are Not Being Unreasonable (it's one of the other boards, not to be ventured on if you're feint hearted!!!!)