Nanny becoming a nanny share

Morton Michel (Sterling Insurance Company Limited) nanny insurance has a limit of 6 minded children.

Wording is as follows:

Number of minded children
The number of minded children in your direct and immediate personal care at any one time
must not exceed six.

Hmm interesting. I wonder if they amended their guidance at some point but which way we have no way of knowing....

I'm only referring to what they referred me to in their teethbreakingky polite (unnecessarily complicated and exhaustive) letter. Seems they didn't really clarify anything after all. Quelle surprise!

The requirements for the Written Statement would not cover the ability to bring her own child to work though.

As far as insurance is concerned, it appears to me that many people believe that liability insurance (whether personal, employer's or professional) is going to pay out if someone has an accident.

Liability insurance will pay out if someone suffers an injury or other loss because of the negligence of the insured person.

Losses arising from your negligence suffered by visitors to your home may be covered under your home insurance policy. This would normally cover the other family's children and probably your nanny's child too, although you should check this with your insurer - this would apply in any nanny share or nanny with own child situation of course.

Losses arising from your negligence suffered by your nanny must by law be insured through Employer's Liabiity Insurance. This may also cover losses sufferd by your nanny's child, again check with the EL insurer - again this would apply in any nanny with own child situation.

Losses arising from your nanny's negligence in the course of her employment are covered by the nanny's liability insurance. There may be exclusions in this policy relating to the number of children in her care and you should check this with her insurer.

Snap, the guidance you link to actually says:

"However, you have to register if you are caring for the children of more than three families in one of the children?s homes."

more than three families

So that means 3 families is permitted?

It then goes on to say, in the Home Childcarers section:

"They can care for children from no more than two families at any one time, completely or mainly at the home of one or both families. However, if you want to provide care for a child under the age of eight in the child?s own home, for children from three or more families at any one time, you must apply for registration as a childminder"

So now it's three or more families

Ofsted need to make up their mind... either it's "more than three" or it's "three or more".

Apparently they do request. Whether they have the authority to demand to see it is a different matter but most nannies when asked seem to hand it over.

Personally I think it's a silly rule, although I can see why it's put in place because you could end up with swarms of children being cared for by someone completely unsuitable, but whilst OFSTED don't win everything that goes to tribunal getting on the wrong side of them could be costly and it creates a difficult precedent. A CM could massively increase their income by shifting their business to one of their mindee's homes. They've been asked about NWOC plus 2 other families and given their opinion (which, mra, is not one I personally share although I would personally follow their guidance and advise anyone else to do the same).

All employers do have to provide a Written Statement within 2 months of an employee starting work.

Ofsted do not have power of entry when it comes to checking a Nanny. They HAVE TO BE INVITED into the home. They are not checking the home, they only are able to check that the nanny meets the conditions for registration on the voluntary part of the Childcare Register.

Not sure that Ofsted have the authority to request to see a contract.

But if she were to be inspected, which of course as her employer you could refuse permission for, they would see the number of children and they request to see the contract which, if it mentions her DC and the share children is enough proof for them.

Maybe I'm just too law abiding for my own good It might be OFSTED's interpretation but they're the ones enforcing it...

I can't see how Ofsted know that her own child is with us.

Exactly. Ofsted won't know about it, unless someone reports it - or unless they carry out an inspection visit (they should inspect 10% of home childcarers each year).

Ofsted do not win every case that goes before the Care Standards Tribunal as a case v Ofsted. So Ofsted don't know for sure how a tribunal would rule... they just seem to hope that people won't challenge them.

Read the legislation, check insurance policies and then do as you feel is right.

Frakkle has expressed her personal opinion, and the opinion of Ofsted (who have a track record of placing their own interpretation on legislation and acting accordingly).

However, I strongly disagree with this interpretation and I do not believe that it would hold up in court - if Ofsted ever dared to take it court given the way they were slapped down the last time they interpreted legislation narrowly to suit their own desire to regulate. The legislation that provides the exemption for nannying, and for nanny shares makes no mention of the children of the nanny.

This is what the legislation says:

Registration is required for "the provision of childcare ... on domestic premises for reward" (Childcare Act 2006 96(2),(4),(6) and (8)).

But nannies provide childcare on domestic premises for reward! So the Childcare (Exemptions from Registration) Order 2008 makes the following exceptions:

where a person makes the provision [of childcare on domsetic premises for reward] for:

(i)a child or children for particular parents, wholly or mainly in the home of the parents, or

(ii)a child or children for particular parents ("the first parents") and, in addition, for a child or children for different parents ("the second parents"), wholly or mainly in the home of the first parents or the second parents or in both homes;

Nowhere in there does it say that either of the exemptions (i) or (ii) (which provide exemptions for ordinary nannies and nanny shares with two families respectively) does not apply if, in addition to providing childcare on domestic premises for reward the carer is looking after her own children.

Ofsted have made this up, I assume because the number of children for which a childminder can provide care for reward is limited by the number of her own children he or she cares for and so their registration system takes this into account. But Ofsted's systems and procedures are not the law, and if the law says you don't have to register as a childminder they are irrelevant.

As Nick says, you (and the nanny) can read the above and refer back to the legislation if you wish and come to your own conclusions.

OFSTED have been asked the question and say that they consider that 3 families. I don't think anyone's gone ahead with it to have it taken in front of a tribunal. But given that the issue has been raised and addressed, and the guidance is fairly self-explanatory, and the legislation doesn't provide an exemption for a parent caring for children of 2 other families alongside their own, it's unlikely to fly.

I think OFSTED already count you as a nanny share as far as registration purposes go with you being the first parents and nanny being the other family.

It isn't Ofsted who put this barrier in place. It is in UK Childcare Law - specifically The Childcare (Exemptions from Registration) Order 2008 Ofsted are just the regulator responsible for checking if childcare providers are keeping to the relevant legislation.

Government feels that a line has to be drawn somewhere between a private childcare arrangement such as with a nanny, and Childminding. The line has been drawn at children from two families. Once a third family is involved, that is then Childminding.

That can be challenged by going to the Care Standards Tribunal following the regulator (Ofsted in the case of England) telling them provider that they can't do what they want to do.

At present, I can not locate any cases involving that particular thing having ever got to tribunal. Thus there is no ruling on it and thus you need to read the legislation and decide for yourself if what you propose is Exempt from childminder registration.

That's the first time OFSTED has clarified anything to my knowledge! Usually they just muddy the waters

I hope you do find a solution. It sounds like your nanny is lovely and obviously you don't want to lose her but it can be a financial squeeze, especially if you don't 'need' FT childcare.