Oh, no - another "Is this salary reasonable for a central London nanny" thread ... but I need your help!

Just looking at this again - what you are I think paying over the odds for is her (lack of) experience - in two ways: partly that she only had 2 years before coming to you (what were those? - sole charge? shared care? mother's help sort of thing?) and partly because if she had more experience I bet she'd find the workload far easier to get to grips with (or she'd have left nannying because she'd have realised it was too much).

Is she qualified?

Couple of other things

• are you/your partner getting vouchers to help with the costs?

• the car. Does she have it because you want the children taken about by car, or because she wants it? We're central/west London, two children, and have never needed a separate nanny-car - we used to insure our own one for our nanny but it really wasn't ever used. If you're happy with her not having a car, you could always do away with that and use the cost to give her a bit of a rise (if you were minded to, which I still think however is giving her the wrong message, which is that by catching you at a difficult moment she can take advantage).

I still think that if you spoke to agencies about your 9.5/hr day sole-charge job, Fridays-flexible, 9mth old, + toddler afternoons only, you'd get loads of applicants.

Could you formalise the Friday afternoons off and keep pay the same?
Makes no difference to you but should allow her to clean her house & sleep?!

I don't think is high for central london but not low either.
The extra holidays is a nice perk imo.

I pay the same and i'm very far (Barnet) but she is v.experienced and bi-lingual which is important to us.

Hey Squiff, what kind of car is in the £92k calculation?

Nannies come in a wide variety of shapes and sizes and prices. in my experience, simply paying them more does not necessariy result in a better service. It's more about the right fit, really.

Generally speaking, I expect my nanny to do for me whatever I would do for my boss, and vice versa. I would never ask my boss to get me a cleaner because he gave me a second project to look after. I would, however, see that second project as an opporunity to prove myself and then possible ask for a raise or promotion at my next review based on my exemplary performance and dedication to the company/department.

I am also coming from the point of view of having been in nanny hell and knowing how a nanny situation can go pear shaped which is why I feel it is worth while paying a good nanny good money......

..forgot to add... no payrise should be because she wants to get a cleaner ...that is her lifestyle choice for which you are not responsible... a payrise should only be in response to doing a fantastic job for a long time and for extra work (hours, substantial change to job particulars etc.

This is incredible. Absolutely.

I wish I could go complaining to my boss whenever I felt that I was worked too hard or got another child in my class or just so tired that I have to employ a cleaner at home and need to commute to work and pay car insurance...etc.. it's only fair that my salary be raised accordingly, right?

I'd just get a new nanny. TRUST ME, your kids will not suffer. They may love her, but they will love another one that is good just as much, I'm sure of it. Kids are more adaptable than we often think. :) There are a lot of nannies looking for work.

sounds like you have a similar situation to me in terms of childcare needs... I live in central london (W8) and have a full time nanny live out to look after my 3 yr old (nursery 9-12 during term time) and almost 2 year old who will be starting nursery in April. I am, however, about to have my 3r child so when I go back to work it will be very busy with 3 under 4!
She works 10.5 hours a day and we pay 550npw which I think is reasonable as it is difficult with 2 such little ones (only 17 months apart). Only nursery duties and a bit of shopping etc, keeping tidy, and we employ a cleaner to do all the ironing etc....
I genuinely think if you have a lovely nanny that does everything how you want, then its worth it, though it is a stretch!

that's too high but you have to decide if you don't give it to her and she leaves, can you put up with the inconvenience of finding someone else (recruiting, interviewing, bedding them in etc. etc.). I think she's bargaining on you not wanting to do that hence asking for the rise.

I've been with current families for over 2 years, i'm in sw London, zone 2. I got a payrise after 1 year, 20p an hour which came out as 1.78% net rise. After 2nd year I did get a payrise when baby joined nannyshare (I'm looking after 3 under the age of 2.5), £1 an hour but did not get a payrise when I have only the older 2 or only 1 child. I understand why she asked for it but she already gets a good salary from you and if you feel that you don't want to give her more,than don't. She will get more money from April if she is on a gross salary anyhow.

StillSquiffy - surely lots of nannies also incur "costs of working" ie commuting costs, car costs, childcare costs?

In whose world is 12 weeks holiday not a perk? I get 4 (as a childminder) I'd be very very happy to have 12!

I can see why most nannies wouldn't be willng to be paid less as a result of more holidays, but how can it not be a perk to not have to go to work?

oh didums, your nanny is tired looking after 2 dc (one at nursrey) and working 9.5hrs a day - poor nanny

thats me being sarky btw - just incase no one worked that out

average nanny hrs are 11 a day so she has 1.5hrs a day on most nannies and can do her housework then

if she wamts a cleaner then fine, but she pays for it

not saying she doesnt derseve a payrise but not 50nett a week

btw discuss gross when you do chat to her

a nanny is not paid per child but per family and if she feels she cant cope with 2 then she needs to find another job

4 weeks choice is pretty darn good though! Your nanny has a well-paid job with flexible employers, which is incredibly rare. Most well-paid jobs pay what they do because the flexibility is all on the nanny's side.

Jeez, what is it with nannies at the moment?

I worked out that with the incidental costs of working (costs of commuting and having a second car to get me to/from station, etc) it is only at the £92,000 gross salary point that I get as much take-home pay as my nanny - and she is on much less than you are currently paying for your nanny.

It is much worse with your numbers. At £550 your nanny would take home £28,620 per annum, but you would pay £42,900 in total, including the tax element. If you wanted to have the same take-home pay as her you would need to earn more than £115,000 (given that you have to pay her out of taxed earnings). And that's before taking into account commute/2nd car costs etc.

I think nannies just don't get it sometimes - ask any nanny on here whether they are better off than their boss if they earn £550 a week and their employer earns £2k per week and they will probably say no and will have a hard time believing you when you tell them that they are earning more than you in such a situation....

(listentotaxman.com is where you do the calcs, by the way)

When you don't work on a Friday, does she work? - or is she only doing a 4-day week? If it's a 4-day week then she is really is asking too much.

PS - extra holiday isn't always seen by nannies as a perk - on the basis that they can't really do much with the extra time off. We thought it would be a selling point for our job, but actually it wasn't at all - the people who wanted the job would have been as happy with 6 wks as 12. What does make a difference is being free to choose her holiday - does she get that at all? I'm guessing that the 12 wks is because you get holiday so you pass on the time off to her (so your choice, not hers?)

"customary to have a 5% rise in most jobs"

really? isn't there a recession on? I haven't had a pay rise for 3 years.

She is being unreasonable. And a bit pathetic. It is her job to look after 2 kids - she doesn't have to et up at night with them - it should not be "exhausting"...

5 days at 9.5 hours isn't a lot for a nanny. Her net salary is already just over average for London with nearly 5 years exp, the rise would take it well over.

If you have gross in your contract then she will get a de facto payrise when the change kicks in anyway!

I don't think it's customary to raise the salary for a new baby though some do. A yearly review taking into account any changes would be more usual.

This salary survey is pretty authoritative - though you should consider it 'high-end', as it'll be a survey of what employers pay who (a) fully face up to tax/NI and (b) use a payroll provider that is not the cheapest on the market - so again people who aren't trying to cut any corners - and suggests that her current rate is good - ie, if you had to replace her you wouldn't have too much difficulty finding candidates.

I am afraid I think she is taking advantage just at this minute - maybe thinking it would be a very difficult time for you to change nannies, so a good negotiating moment. Also, it looks as if you've been doing annual payrises (is that right, were they annual?) of 5.5% the first time & slightly less than that the second time (both fine, as percentages, in current climate) - so it isn't time for her to have a payrise. When it comes to the payrise, a 10% would be a lot in the current climate but you may feel you're happy to do that? If you can bear it, I would say no but you'll bear in mind what she says for the next scheduled payrise (be careful with this message if you can't manage what she's hoping for) - and just see what she does. If you have to change nannies really it won't be the end of the world - and honestly, with two children, you want someone who thinks the buzz of two children is FUN, not someone who can only cope comfortably with one.

It sounds like an awful lot for not as much as it could be......! And the pay rise she wants is the equivalent to 10% which NOBODY is getting in the real world at the moment.

Feel very for you.....

12 weeks (paid) holiday is an enormous perk. I assume you mean she uses her own car, not that you provider her with one.

£450pw net is £600 gross, and £550pw is £744 gross which is a 24% increase.

At £500pw net she is on a salary of £35,000 which is just below the salary of a teacher in Inner London with 5 years of experience.

You have 1 baby and 1 at preschool? Unless there is some other factor, this does not sound like a demanding job, and hours at 47.5 are not abnormally long either.

I think being a mum is much more tiring than being a nanny because you don't get to clock off... ever. A nanny should be a professional and be able to handle 9.5 hours of two children without keeling over of exhaustion in the evening.

I'd like a cleaner. Do you think i should go ask my boss if he'll give me a raise to pay for one because he works me too hard during the day? I think I'd be laughed at.