Nannies, would you it be a normal thing to ask

hi all

I couldnt pass by this one!! last wk I attended the end of yr xmas party for the nursery children, I look after 1b aged 3yrs old, I also had my 2 yr old with me.
I am employed as a nanny to B and it was a given that I would take lunch as on the invite, chat to other mums and generally supervise but from a distance. There was an entertainer, all kids sat on the floor (69) of them and watched whilst parents chatted/had a mince pie and choocy and a cuppa!
My charge certainly wouldn`t have joined in had I of been by his side the entire time, he just had the freedom to do what he wanted, so he was hungry, got up had a bite to eat and went back to the show!
In fact I had a conversation with one of the mums, who actually asked how I feel at such events - she also said as far as she is concerned I am "one of them", she loves how I balance my sons needs with my work families! I thanked her and said thats lovely to hear....

I usually work in fully staffed households where the nanny/governess treads a very fine line between the staff and the household. I am far more intimately involved with the family than most of the other staff I work with. HappyChappy is right in that in certain sections of society the word 'staff' does have a very different meaning. Some families I work for treat me as staff and are delightful to work for. Others quite frankly are foul. It depends how secure they are in their social position IME. That goes for both English and foreign families.

NNick, I think so; generally people who are less well off will either stay home or use other types of childcare.

Mrsthomsontobe; what a very English attitude. you go to many parts of the world 'staff' has a very different meaning. Also in the UK among the very rich 'the staff' has a very different meaning to just somebody who works for you.

but most people are someone elses staff unless you are self employed and own your own business. so to think that a nanny who lets you go out to work for someone else is just staff and below you is wrong. they are equal to you as in use both work for someone. not every nanny employer will own there own business so most will work for someone so they are someones staff so are therefore equal to the nanny.

Would it be fair to say that in the UK middle class parents have middle class nannies?

That is my experience... so was wondering if that is how things are, or if it's just unique to me.

I have a degree level education and have been teaching for the last 5 years, but am returning to nannies in February, because it suits my life at this moment in time.

I was speaking to a friend recently and after this conversation wondered if I should retitle myself educationalist because that is what I consider my career to be. However having travelled a bit and know how it differs from country to country in many countries you are just the staff, not anything more or less. And therefore not somebody you would in any circumstances socialise with. I have no problem with that but know I must understand that when taking on that type of role. In the UK it is different. Its an interesting social study if nothing else!

I thought that was the whole point of these parties - the kids all run riot at someone else's home (or more often these days at a hall with a magician, or at softplay) whilst parents/carers got 90mins-2hours to themselves.

true nick, i dump and run at many kids partys and relish the freedom of peace for a few hours

Is it normal for a child (of school age, so 4+) to be invited to a birthday party and for a parent/carer to stay?

A few years back I recall taking a child I nannied to a birthday party. I dropped her off and collected her at the end. I had care of her other 3 siblings, so staying wasn't really an option given there was no mention on the invite that someone was expected to stay, or if siblings were welcome to attend.

I'm currently reading a book which talks about the status of nannies in America (the book is 12 years old, so talks about how things were then). Back then a lot of nannies were in a lower social class to the parents, though some nannies were of similar social class. In the UK things are perhaps a little different in that when we surveyed nannies on Mumsnet, many of us had degree level education - which may therefore mean we are similar social class to our employers.

I am wondering how other parents at a party would respond to a nanny... would the nanny be seen as an equal, or would they be seen as being below them... being just someone's staff?

Happy Chappy has put it well, Annabel. I don't know whether you are English or not but I think that there is a big difference between the status of a nanny in this country and elsewhere. Here, a very fine but significant distinction would certainly be made between the waiting staff at an event, say, and a nanny accompanying their charges to such a function. In such a situation and in the circles in which I move, a nanny would be regarded in loco parentis - yes, she would be working and paid for her time but her status at the party would not be the same as that of any caterers, waiters, etc.
(Having said that, I have had a number of different nannies, who varied hugely in their ability and willingness to mingle with parent friends of ours, but I have never prohibited a nanny from mixing and indeed have always actively encouraged it on occasions when it mattered.)
This may well be different in Manhattan and other big cities outside the UK and it may even be different among super-rich expats in London. When I replied to your first post, I didn't get that you don't live here - though your nickname certainly gives a big clue.
I would say just be aware of these subtle differences when and if you do move to the UK!

PS some nannies will go to the parties and some don't really. My nanny doesn't but that's because we are in Italy and she's English and doesn't feel her Italian is up to it. (fair enough as long as the kids are occupied constructively and safe I'm cool with that. My kids are that bothered about birthday parties, if they were though I think I would insist. Particularly here, school is very intensive will little time for play and social interaction, I also live in a small village and its really more a community thing, not going is a bit rude. We are forgiven because we participate in other ways (and are English so a bit strange) and they know are nanny is English and therefore 'odd'.

I think Annabel has already admitted she lives in Manhattan world, Its not the world that we live in. There is a very big difference between paid staff and normal people.

In the UK and in most of the rest of Europe this is not a norm.

I have been and have used nannies. Its perfectly normal to ask nannies to bring children to kids parties. To refuse food or drink and not speak to anybody at the party would be incredibly rude and offensive. Further, having the nanny running around the party after their charge would just be weird! When their charge needed it absolutely but for the entire party experience would be very odd indeed. Also I don't think the children would greatly appreciate it (children need space too).

most nannies are older ladies from Puerto Rico or Jamaica who have already raised their own families back home

sounds to me that your 'nannies' arent actually professional career or qualified nannies

I live in Manhattan where attitudes towards alcohol are much stricter and most nannies are older ladies from Puerto Rico or Jamaica who have already raised their own families back home. I don't think any of them would want to mix socially with their employers' friends either.

DVD man = Man (or woman, although I've not come across one of those yet) hired to make a DVD of an event. Not uncommon at 4 year-olds' birthday parties here.

Maybe it's time I moved back to the UK...

It is a normal 'nanny duty' to take the children to things they are invited to, it doesn't really matter whether she wants to or not, it's part of the job.

Your nanny should be socially competent enough to know whether the Mummies want to talk to her or not, you get some that do and some that don't - it's pretty easy to sort out which are which.

As for Annabelle - your attitude is truely unbelievable and I don't know any English nannies that would work for you.

As a nanny I wouldn't be happy to go and sit on the table with all the mummies especially if I didn't know any of them.

the DVD man

What's one of those?

I don't know, is that really so unreasonable?

At the end of the day, I send my nanny to parties not for her own enjoyment as an adult guest but to supervise DD (who is 4 by the way). I wouldn't want her presence to prevent the enjoyment of the adults who are guests by inhibiting them from feeling able to be themselves. They should be able to relax and let their hair down with their friends, not feel they have to make small talk with someone else's nanny whom they barely know and have nothing in common with. You wouldn't expect the conjuror or the DVD man to keep digging into the canapes at a wedding, would you? He's there to do a job, not to indulge in the catering.

On Friday my nanny ate lunch at home before going to get DD from nursery. Is that really such a hardship? She's been with us 18 months now and our housekeeper has been with us since we moved here five years ago. I'm not a complete ogre, I promise.

Annabel how old is your nanny?What nationality is she? Is she British?

nbee you sum it up very well

annabel are you really saying that you wouldnt allow your nanny to sit and eat with the other mums?

i can understand the no booze rule, tho surely the parents wouldnt be drinking during the day while attending to their children

as my role as a nanny i am to step into my mb's shoes and do what she would/cant as at work

therefore if mb was invited/agreed to go to a meal i would go (if she wanted me to)

ie yesterday i waited at school and did the cake drop off/collection for school xmas fete today as mb was at work (was re arranged from last sat as of snow)

so basically op, im happy to go to most events and sure it would be enjoyable - tho if it was one annabel wanted me to go to,i would be dreading it

Sorry Annabel but I pity your Nanny.
I think the way you treat her will eventually mean that she harbours resentment and she will look elsewhere.
In any relationship, there has to be a little give and take and although you are paying her wage, she is looking after your child.

Lighten up, it's the festive season FGS!!

I take the children I look after to parties and play dates all the time. I also mingle with the other mums at the school gates and had no idea there were still people in the world who would rather separate themselves from 'the staff'

Do you manage to keep your nannies for very long annabel?

I am a nanny I go to all parties with my charges as required .I generally know the parents of the childrens friends as well as if not better than my employers do,We chat about the children and general activities that I may perhaps take them to .When we go to a party I certainly sit with the adults [I am an adult after all!! ]I am always watching the children and supervising drinks ,cakes etc but they would much prefer to sit with their friends without me sitting with them,This certainly adds to their enjoyment of the event.How old are your children ?I look after four year old twins and a five year old ,they love the fact that they can sit alone with their friends.I do not drink alcohol while working and I dont believe that a nanny who is driving should.I CANNOT believe your If she is offered food and drink I do not expect her to acceptcomment. What times are you living in.What opinion of her does this give other people,Or you !when she says my employer does not allow me to eat or drink while Im out,what s the poor girl meant to do?

I completely agree with you about the alcohol. But as for nanny not socialising with other adults or eating or drinking food that is offered to her I would run a mile (or 10!) from a job like this.

I don't think you'll find many on here agreeing with you on that.

I can understand how others may have more relaxed views than I do generally but I draw the line at the alcohol. Drinking on the job is an absolute no-no for me under any circumstances.

My nanny stood in for me at a mother-and-child Xmas lunch on Friday. I had her eat at home beforehand and sit with the children at their table, not with the adults. The adults' table was for mothers (a group who all know each other well) and I didn't want them to feel they had to be adapting their conversation all the time to try to include her. It was their Xmas event, not hers.

AnnabelUSA