Why do cleaners earn more than childcarers

Try being a care assistant!

But funnylady, your argument that a childminder with her own child under 5 can't increase her numbers doesn't make sense for comparison, because then you can argue that a cleaner with children under 5 needs to pay for their childcare whilst she earns, thereby reducing her own net hourly rate.

WE are talking about what the cleaner/cm earns not what you pay.
A registered childminder who looks after 1 child in her own home, £4 per hour, 7 hours a day, 5 days a week = £140 per week. Not a nanny btw.
A cleaner cleans 2 houses a day (3 hours at each), 5 days a week, £10 per hour = £300 per week.
Roughly same amount of hours worked. c/m could increase number of children but poss can't if she has her own little ones under 5.
Plain fact is cleaner gets £10 per hour and reg c/m gets £4 per hour.
It's a matter of choice i guess how we decide to earn our money, I should perhaps be a cleaner now i've done the sums! love c/m tho. Won't carry this on as think it one of 'those ones'.

Oh ffs, not this old chestnut again.

A childminder who looks after one child at a time (or who works for only one family) is not a childminder, she's a nanny. And she would probably earn more then a cleaner for doing so.

A childminder looks after several children at once. So she also earns more than a cleaner.

A cleaner works 2-3 hours a week for a family, getting paid around £20-£30 for doing so.

A childminder, per full-time charge, works say 9 hours a day, 5 days a week, so that's 45 hours a week, at £5 an hour, so that's £225 a week.

If childcare cost £10 an hour not many would be able to afford it. It's a pointless argument.

I get so pissed off with posts implying that people value a clean house more than their children simply because of the difference in hourly rate.

I pay £80 a month on my cleaner. £1500 on childcare. Does that answer your question in very simple terms?

As c/ms we are looking after the most precious things parents could possibly own - their children. Far more precious than any office/ house or it's contents being cleaned! If you are not a child carer you will never understand the worry and resposibility that goes with it. I have never understood how a cleaner can be paid more.

I'd rather be a cleaner than a childminder. Not harder at all.

I know lots of people who hire a nanny for 9+ hours a day, 5 days a week. I know lots of people who hire a cleaner for 2-3 hours a week. I don't know anyone who has a cleaner for 9 hours a day, 5 days a week.

I do, however, know people who've worked full time as a cleaner in supermarkets and office blocks. they earned only a few pence over the minimum wage. You aren't comparing like with like.

A childminder can mind more than one child and so easily increase their hourly income to beyond that of a cleaner.

And do people really believe that if work is more physically demanding you should be paid more for it? That's one of the reasons why men are often paid far more than women.

Ah Rosie, I guess it differs by area / your contract, but most childminders around here do charge for holiday - either a couple of weeks separately or to spread costs calculate it into their hourly fees. My argument is a general one though - most childminders do charge for holiday, most self-employed cleaners do not.

One thing that does not apply to all or perhaps even most (I don't know how many), but if you have small children, at least you won't have the additional childcare costs for your own children that you would have if you had to go out and clean in other locations.

I'm not saying childminding is easy - of course it isn't, I wouldn't be able to do it myself (and I'm saying this having a really full-on job), but I just think cleaners doesn't have it as easy or get such a lot of money compared to, as per the OP, child carers as people sometimes makes out.

DIONE
"Because we still live in a patriarchal society which places less value on women and children than it does on men and the things they hold dear."
That's exactly what I was going to say.

You just put it more eloquently.

I used to wonder about this. But it is still possible for a childminder to earn £37,000 per year if she has an average of three children for 40 hours per week with full holiday pay and a rate of £6 per hour (more in some parts of London). Childminders need to be skilled in many more areas and are essential to thosewho have school age children. Cleaners are a dispensable luxury so they are more vulnerable to belt tightening in a recession and it is less rewarding work generally.

Oh and MisSal, I also don't get holiday/sick/bank holiday pay or any christmas bonus.

Oh really?

Cleaners don't expect to change the nappies of a child with a bowel problem (and clothes and cleaned and disinfected the area where the child exploded).
Clean up snotty noses after they've been smeared over furniture and toys.
Clean up paint, messy play, sand, mud from play areas and around the house.
Change an average of 10-15 nappies every day.
Wipe up spills and dropped food every single meal time from 3-6 children every single week day.

Believe me, childminding involves much more yukky work than the average cleaner.

Although some childminders hire cleaners, most do the cleaning themselves in addition to all the above - only we're cleaning up our homes after the kids as well as our families. My loo, for example, is cleaned at least twice a day - preschoolers are not renowned for their aiming skills.

Some of these responses make me feel very sad that it can be defend-able to say that just because cleaning is a "dirty job" they should get paid more.

Don't get me wrong, a good cleaner is worth £10 per hour, but I believe I should be worth more too.

I have to clean my house twice daily, in a morning before children arrive and after they leave.

Dirty toilets with pee everywhere, changing nappies, lugging non-walkers around, lifting children in and out of car seats. Believe me it is a very physical job.

Non of mine sleep so I don't get tea-break, lunch break, paperwork has to be done in the evening.

Legally by the way if we are working on our own we can only have 6 children 3 under 5, so generally during the working week my maximum income is £11.25 per hour and I am never full every day. I pay my own tax, NI, and have the general costs of keeping my house warm and lit, even if I only have 1 child at £3.75 per hour (although I know it can be claimed against tax) it still costs extra.

After working a 52 hour week last year I didn't earn more than £2.30 per hour, after all expenses were deducted.

We have shedloads of work which is put on us by the government, although they don't pay us, or give us any funding towards toys etc.

We are now expected to be highly trained professionals level 3 NVQ minimum soon.

Could you see a primary school teacher accepting this?

This makes me feel that although we are pressured to be professional, most people still don't see us as that way.

And before someone reminds me its my choice, I understand that, but I started this job pre-EYFS and the pressure that it brought and am now looking at changing my job (may even become a cleaner ). Which I struggle with as I love the children and their families, but need to have a reasonable income too.

We had this exact thread about a month ago, but I'll repeat what I said there - cleaning is a less enjoyable job. Hard as it might be at times to work with overtired toddlers etc, putting your hands down someone else's toilet deserves the additional money imo.

Also, as said above, part-time cleaners don't really get that much if you take into account the lost time spent travelling. They also get no holiday pay, no sick pay etc - all of which bring down the actual hourly rate considerably.

Because cleaning is physically much more demanding than childcare, and more unpleasant!

The question should be "Why do cleaners earn more than nannies" - as a cleaner and a nanny are more directly related than other forms of childcare. Childminding, nurseries, pre-schools are all forms of Group Care, where as a nanny typically only works for one family at a time. Like a cleaner, who only cleans one place at a time.

As someone else said earlier... a cleaner may clean for just a few hours a week, whereas a nanny could be doing 40+ hours a week.

Would be interested to know how much a full-time cleaner gets paid... such as a cleaner at a health club, supermarket etc (though expect even in those places the cleaners are not full-time, probably more likely doing shifts).
This Example - cleaner for health club, 48 hours over 4 weeks, Merseyside, Pay NMW.

Im relativly full. I have 11 children on role. I work 50+ hour weeks. Market forces mean i cant charge more than £3 ph. After I take away my expenses (food, utilities, transport, outings, resources, etc) and take into account the non Childminding time I spend doing paperwork and attending training I earn a grand total of £1.18 an hour.

Bloody good job I Childmind for the love of it!

Free market forces. Nothing to stop a childminder from being a nanny or doing cleaning at getting their higher rates. Or charging parents more.

Dione, I find it a bit rich that someone from Norway lectures us on how to spend more taxpayers money. They with their lovely oil money and all. Maybe send some of it our way.

a childminder can have as many as 6-8 children at as much as £5/hr that's £40 for an hour. even if it's only for a few hours, say 2-5pm, that's far more tahn a cleaner will get in day charging £10/hour for the same amount of hours.

My bad, I was actually comparing it to a nanny, which I think is a fairer assessment as they are both in your house and can only do one 'house' at a time.

Becasue you can afford £10 for one hour's cleaning.

But you can't afford £10 per hour for maybe 8-9 hours per day.

a childminder also pays their own tax,
a childminder doesn't always have more than 1 child and when you spread the hourly wage over a week its not that much.
a childminder does get quiet times, SOMETIMES, not all children sleep at the same time therefore making having lunch or a cup of tea very difficult.
a childminder does work very hard and can be grotty at times.
a childminder can spend most of her time working for far less than the minium wage.
a childminder has a lot of paperwork to do even when not being paid.

good job a childminder generally works for the love of the job than the perks