Why do cleaners earn more than childcarers

should have said I have a baby part-time too as well as the schoolie. Must be all the early mornings and late finishes.!

KatyMac Sun 14-Nov-10 21:46:38
Jojay - I can almost guarantee she doesn't make more than you, she has expenses

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Yeah, we have to pay for: public liability insurance, OFSTED want £25-£30 per year for registration, food, extra electricity, water for washing towels etc. I look after one child at the moment and I earn £45 per week because he is a schoolie and a bit more in the hols.

We also have to do training in our own time. After a day of work, sometimes starting at 7 am till 6-6.30 is a long day and with cuts we used to get something to eat because we didn't have enough time to cook but not now. It makes me cross when people think we sit down drinking tea of coffee all day, i'm taking this minute while the baby is asleep to type this and have something to eat.

Most cleaners and childcarers make about £12k a year if they work for someone else. Even if they are the cleaning or nursery manager regardless of how many kids are there responsibility.

I think anything over minimum wage for these jobs is lucky.

I know what you mean RosieGirl! There are many childminders in my area so to be able to get someone to mind you end up charging £3.50 ph which, to look after a baby with all the responsibilities that goes with childcare is not very much.

You get parents not paying on the right day, changing their hours by the minute which drives me mad and iresponsible parents who let their 8 year old walk here by himself and then text to see if they have arrived! On top of that we have OFSTED inspections and paperwork which are observations of the children, we have to follow EYFS framework and do all our accounts, they also expect us to have NVQ Level 3 but now funding is not available in some areas so who are going to pay for the qualifications?

I really hope I can get someone full-time to mind because outgoings are more than incomings at the moment.

Actually, I find the cleaning MUCH more relaxing after 10 hrs a day with babies and toddlers

Well I'm a CM by day and a pre-school cleaner by night. Maybe I should ask for more than the minimum wage? .

People moan about everything

Oh, I agree, but I don't think the OP is saying that. I think she's grumbling about the people who happily pay their cleaners a higher rate, but moan about their childcare costs.
I used to have a mum who paid heaven knows what to stable her horse, yet kept moaning about my fees It definately gave the impression that the quadruped came first in her life!

(don't get vouchers, either )

True, Tanith. I do value my cm. She's amazing. The best. And I don't begrudge a penny that I pay her (and I wish I could afford to pay her more!).

But I do think the point that people value a cleaner more because they are paid more is nuts.

It's just the way it is.

Of course you can pay more per hour for a service you only need for a couple of hours per week.

I'm a teacher (not british school, so a bit different). Yearly first aid qualification, every 5 years renewing my teaching license (££) and going on courses (££) in order to keep it all up to date - other things as well. BUt I do think that the requirements for CMs are incredible. The paperwork is beyond belief.

I don't get tax credits or child credits benefit or whatever all that is. I do get the salary sacrifice pre tax voucher which is worth a savings of £70/month.

It just can't all be compared. Apples to bananas to oranges to pears :)

I'd also like to point out that the OP is talking about parents who begrudge paying their childminder's fees - i.e. who don't value their childminders, not the average parent who thinks we're all wonderful (which we are, of course )

"but if you have small children, at least you won't have the additional childcare costs for your own children that you would have if you had to go out and clean in other locations"

Yes we do. Parents on our income are able to claim working tax credits to assist with the cost of childcare - up to 80% of childcare costs. We are debarred from claiming, even though our child is taking up a fulltime place that we can't offer to another child.

If we were to send out child to another setting or carer, that child would still be taking up a fulltime place with us, so our childcare costs are actually more than most parents have to pay.

Parents do have expenses, of course, but I've yet to hear of a parent who had to undertake training, first aid qualification, registration and insurance as well as provide the kind of resources that childminders are expected to provide.

I understand she has expenses, but they'd have to be a hell of a lot to end up making less than me

Do parents not have expenses as well?

I know. I have a friend with a nanny who makes more than she does .

I have only 1 child (and this discussion is a big reason that he will stay an only child) and currently my cm takes home more from my pay monthly than I end up with. But... needs must. :)

Jojay - I can almost guarantee she doesn't make more than you, she has expenses

Scary isn't it! The other little gem I worked out the other day is that I pay my cm more than I'm left with at the end of the month.

So she has my 2 kids two days a week, I work in a management job 3 days a week (Dh has the boys the other day) and she makes more out of it than I do!

Serves me right for having kids close together!

But for those who complain that childminders are badly paid ( and I agree, none of them are exactly rolling in it) the rest of us who have to deduct childcare costs from our pay packets are hardly raking it in either.

Ours too! Dh nearly passed out when I told him how much it would be. However, it's far better having what's left of our salaries after the cost at the end of each month and being able to pay all of our bills. And my cm is the best.

I agree it's not cheap - our monthly childcare bill is bigger than our mortgage

But you get the gist

Jojay - it's far from cheap. But I agree that it has to be affordable for the consumers. If it was too high, then many, many people would not be able to afford to work (and probably consequently, be in debt, unable to afford household bills...etc... but that's another issue!)... and if many people could not afford childcare, then many childcarers would be out of work.

People (not me!) can afford £20 per week for their cleaner's 2 hours in their home in addition to childcare, but paying this rate X 40 hours per week may be unaffordable. It has nothing to do with patriarchy or that parents don't respect or value their childcarers

Childcare has to be cheap otherwise it's not worth the parents going back to work.

Just the way it is.

Agree with Annie and StarExpat about the futility of attributing a relative value to jobs. Many jobs like teaching or junior doctor have so much unpaid overtime that per hour many of them are earning less than minimum wage.

Annie's statement: "I pay £80 a month on my cleaner. £1500 on childcare. Does that answer your question in very simple terms?" pretty much sums it up for a lot of parents.

Childcare is at the limit of its affordability for a lot of parents because of the cumulative numbers of week it is required. CMs/nannies could of course charge more, but there will quickly come a point when the parent might was well upgrade to a more convenient form of childcare like nannies or give up work altogether.

Hence, the pay for carers is what it is. Hardly anything to do with the 'patriarchy'.

This is a very silly argument. Agree with Annie.
I'm a teacher and plenty of professions (including some nannies!) earn more than I do. My job pays what it pays. I knew this when I made the career choice.

I'm always a little baffled why this argument crops up anyway. Different jobs have different rates of pay, for various reasons.

I guess it's because these are two jobs where it's working parents paying for the service. But it's still comparing apples and pears IMO.

They're completely different jobs, with different terms of service and very different variables as to how much any one individual earns.

As I said, I get really annoyed when people use this pointless argument to try to imply that working parents don't value their children or their carers.