Why do we have kids if we can't look after them ourselves?

So pasta how do you afford to stay at home and raise your children?

Actually, don't bother answering it, your talking shit and I can't bother getting into a discussion with you about it.

These debates always make me laugh [albeit in a hollow tone].

Like we have a choice!

Its not about luxuries, its about survival. Its a middle class debate, every woman for generations of my family have worked.

Not because they were career women. They had to suppliment the father's income in order to feed their children.

The difference then was that the children were looked after by aunts and older sisters, nans and great nans.

Now they go to CMs and nurseries because the way families live has changed.

What a joke, choosing not to work! I can imagine the pasting I would get on MNs if I said 'in order to be a real mother I have chosen to allow you all to pay for me to stay at home and care for my own children'

Some of us will never be in the position to have one full time stay at home parent unless they are forced to by illness or unemployment.

I went back to work 3 days a week when ds was 1 just so i could afford to send him to nursery. we can get by with me not working but I just think nursery is such a good environment for a child that i'm prepared to go to work in a job that i don't really like just to be able to afford to give ds that experience.

they learn so much and make so many friends. ds is now nearly 3 and has just started learning spanish at nursery which i think is fantastic!

I find it difficult to comprehend why parents don't want their children in some form of structured childcare for at least one day a week. Why limit them?

The line people take when arguing this is "you can always go back to work once they're at school". If you really believe this, why, all of a sudden don't they need you when they go to school? I have yet to find a mother wh can comfortably fit in a job around school time, and to be honest, as a part time working mother I feel far worse having my DD in childcare now she's started school as I think she needs me more. I'm desperately trying to juggle so I can do more drop offs / pick ups.

I had nannies. They weren't replacements for my mother and I knew that. I turned out just fine. I am both a mother and a career person. I contribute equally (financially) to the household because that is what works in my relationship. Unlike you OP, I don't sit there judging other parents for the parenting and relationship choices they have made.

DS1 keeps begging me to let him go to the breakfast club as his 2 best friends go and love it.

No way

a) I can't afford it (as I'm not currently working)

b) there's no way in hell he'll be able to get up and to school for 8am

c) he'll stuff up our morning routine we currently have where he walks DS2 up the road )

pastaplease Fri 22-Oct-10 20:58:31
No, I don't think that breakfast clubs etc are great. I haven't said that.

you did say only for the 1st 5years so unless you then expect every1 after not working the 1st 5 years to then get a job working 9.15/30 till 2.30/45 then you and everyone else would need to use the sort of clubs

I'm perfectly well aware that the comments section of the Daily Mail website is populated by people who would like to burn me for working full time.

I just don't give a shit what they think.

pasta - wrg to your friend and the creche on holiday - I bet the crèche isn't all day. I bet the parents don't see much of each other because they're both working.

I think using a creche facility so they can spend some time as a couple as well as with their children is a great idea.

This is really getting a lot of interest and also really generating fiery responses!!!!

It would be interesting to know how many of us choose childminding so we could do both.

I don't get why its so black and white, most mums work part time so they balance being with their children/babies and having the benefits (personal/social/financial) of being in work.
I personally don't agree with mums who rush back to full time work when babies are very young (under 6 months) as I think it must be difficult for the baby to form a good emotional attachment, also there is some evidence that nursery situations for very young babies and children is extrememly stressful for them.
I went back to a job I love when dd was 8months, 3 days a week and used a childminder who dd loved, she started going to nursery when she was 2. This feels like it has been the best balance I could find.

DeulingFanjo said it best :)

selfishness that's crept in in the last 20/30 years??? WTF

NEver mind the parents going out to work - they used ot send the kids out to work in the days not more than 100yrs ago

Anyhow - I don't get this whole WOHM/SAHM thing.

I've been a SAHM for 8 out of the 10yrs I've been a parent. The 2yrs I was working I worked nights, and stayed up in the day afterwards - so my children didn't "miss" any time with me (although I wasn't looking after them at night if they woke up as I was at work).

Anyhow - that aside, there are 168hrs in a week, even if you add 2 hours a day onto a 40hr week to allow for geting to/from work - that's still only 50hrs out of 168 (so 1/3 of the week) that a parent isn't looking after their own child if they're working out of the home ~(and that's presuming they work a full 40hr week!).

And if you tell me that night time doesn't count you can f* off. As you still have to be there for them, listening out for them etc etc even if they're asleep.

Oh - and why are dad's allowed to work as many hours as there are in a day outside of the home but they don't get lambasted for not looking after their children????

No, I don't think that breakfast clubs etc are great. I haven't said that.

Childcare costs eat approximately 40% of my take home wage per month. I do have shorter hours, though, and only half the year that ds attends due to holidays between dh and I. I still pay for holidays, half for summer's 10 weeks and still 40% of my wage.

We need that 60% leftover + dh's salary (he's the lower earner at the moment, but has recently retrained, so can't just take a career break, either) in order to pay bills, mortgage, eat...etc. We don't have loads of disposable income but enough for the odd treat and don't take holidays at the moment.

So nannies/nurseries are Bad but school is Good, is that right? Leaving a school aged child to breakfast clubs, doing their homework in afters clubs, etc is fine by you? What an arbitrary cutoff point.

I'm always amazed when people say it's a simple solution to go back when children get to school. If anything it's harder, either juggling before/after/holiday care.

Anyway OP - you are welcome to your opinion. Just don't expect many of us here to share it, or indeed to respect it if you're going to call other people "selfish" and their choices "frankly odd".

I want to work
I want to have kids

I can do both

it's great

I don't give a shit if weird people want to obssess about the choice I make. sad bastards need to get a life.

Supid thread by a stupid person.

Yes, I appreciate that several years break from a career can be a serious problem. It will affect me too, as I work in a technology-reliant (for want of a better phrase) environment. I know I'm going to struggle to adjust and may have a long-term affect on my earnings.

I knew this when I was pregnant though, so I put it down to another thing in life that I'd have to adjust to when a child comes along.

Childminders £3.50 per hour around here. NMW is £5.93 per hour. Do the maths.

Just out of interest, how much does childcare cost? My local nursery is £45 per day. You'd have to earn a fair old wage to be able cover this, wouldn't you?

How is one supposed to get back into their job after a 5 year career break? Unfortunately, not all jobs in our society are that easy to do this with... Things progress and move on a LOT in 5 years.
Some people can do this - great for them :)

Also, it wasn't an option for me. We needed to meet our basic needs, can't claim benefits (not that I would, anyway), and dh and I had to work. Dh for other equally important reasons.

Why should having a career or having a family be mutually exclusive for mothers or fathers? If parents want/need to work, and put good childcare in place, then why should they be made to feel guilty? I'm sure not every parent WANTS to work, but even if they do, why is that such a bad thing? In my 12+ years working with families the ONE most significant thing every family has had in common is they want the best for the family as a whole. No one deliberately chooses to do harm (well, not the majority of normal people) so what gives anyone else the right to judge their choices? Life costs money and parents do what it takes to afford that life. Children need love, support, feeding, watering, educating, disciplining, and lots more loving. As long as they get that, does it really make that much of a difference WHO provides it? I don't think it does tbh.

Because you can't afford to do things like eat or sleep for worrying about debt if half your household income is suddenly removed. In the first five years of a childs life.

A friend of mine's a nanny. She's great and really works hard.

Her charges and their parents have gone on holiday for two weeks today and the parents have booked the two children into creche every day while they're on holiday.

OK, not everyone with a nanny is like that, I'm sure. But this really made me think - why have children if you're of this sort of mentalilty?

I am amazed at the language unfitmother no need for fowl language.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Please also remember that some mothers have to work for whatever reason. It is wrong to judge other people without knowing their situation.

I have worked when my eldest was young but gave up just before my 2nd was born. I now have four children. Thats the choice I made and I personally love being at home.

I am very fussy about my children and I also ensure that I give a good service to the children I care for.