Why do we have kids if we can't look after them ourselves?

Agreed MaMoTTaT. I don't feel guilty and I don't give a damn about smug posters like OP- although it does get under my skin. My DD is extremely happy and well-adjusted, she and I have a very close relationship, she loves her nanny, and unfortunately her father is a total dickwad who fucked off and gives us no money. So it's over to me, or to the state. I choose to take on responsibility for her. She will be fine. More than fine. No-one should judge. Many of us have no choice.

OurMutualFiend - we don't really exist......or so the Tories and many of soceity would like to believe.

We're damned if we do, and damned if we don't.

"So many women work to just make ends meet in jobs they don't enjoy. If they don't work they are made to feel useless wasters who are not contributing to society or family."

So many PEOPLE work to just make ends meet in jobs they don't enjoy. If they don't work they are made to feel useless wasters who are not contributing to society or family.

people have since the beginning of time worked 'just' to make ends meet in jobs they don't enjoy, that's how life is for most people.

My mum had 3 kids, she stayed at home until the youngest was in school, she was at home for 12 years.
She tried to get back into teaching but couldn't. She eventually started up a gardening business, which she could only do because of childcare help from my grandmother.
When my mother went back to work it was quite a major trauma in my life, if she'd always worked it wouldn't have been so bad.
My mother's life has always revolved entirely around our family, I'm not convinced that was very healthy for any of us.

You can't just stay at home and then walk back into a job once the kids are at school, even if you do that still requires childcare, unless everyone is meant to have a school hours, term time only job?

I work freelance, I try to fit it around my husbands days off and times the grandparents/aunt/godmother can help out so as to save money on childcare.

I just don't understand. What are single mothers, with no financial support from the father or other family, supposed to do? I'm in the fortunate position of earning a lot more than it costs me to pay for childcare. But I'm the only one who is bringing in the cash to pay for housing, food, day to day stuff. Should I quit work and go on benefits? This is a ridiculour debate. OP should fuck right off.

BTW, I think the Sew Liberated woman is absolutely awesome and wish I was even a tiny bit as amazing as her. Obviously she's supported by having plenty of dosh handy, judging by her house. But I'm really not comfortable with everyone laughing at her. Jealous much?

Oh yawn, another WOHM vs SAHM debate.

You know, there are some people who shouldn't have children. The ones who feed them junk food 24/7, plonk them down in front of the TV/computer instead of playing with them, who never read to them, expect schools to fulfil the entire educational role. Who get drunk and/or do drugs in front of their children, who argue in front of their children. You get the idea.

Please save your smugness and ire for the people who genuinely are bad parents, not for perfectly good parents who happen to work. Thanks.

I know I'm terrible - you should see me practically skipping up the street after I drop DS3 at nursery these days as well

But no - I don't leave them upset, thankfully with my church organ playing that I've done since DS1 was 2yrs old they're all very used having other people look after them/whisk them off. I know I am extremely lucky there that my lads are so adept at random people looking after them

Feel free to judge away - I'm the spawn of the devil anyhow, as I'm on SAHM on benefits and a single one at that)!!!

MaMoTTaT - bad girl if your children are fine, why not. But I have spent one too many party with her crying DD on my lap and trying to answer her rather bewildered looking DS "where did my mummy go?".

She doesn;t hang around long enough to find out if they are actually fine with it.

Funnily enough it doesn;t drag me to MN to slag off all SAHM's, I assumed that it was just her, but hey why not lets judge everyone by a generic occupation status!

that blog woman me thinks is taking the piss surely.

Shes pregnant with number 2 now. I feel a bit sorry for her getting slated. I agree some of its quite amusing in a sort of who the hell could be arsed to o THAT way. But shes not doing anything awful, little boy looks happy. She does soap making, painting etc with him. I would never be able to keep that level of dedication up.

I have known parents who were like her but on a lesser scale, they did nothing else but "parent" if you see what I mean? Constant organic natural crafty things, home cooked from scratch vegan food etc. They have eased off a bit now they are at school but children are perfectly normal and very lovely.

I am more a do an activity with them then they have free play on own while you clean up hae a cup of tea and recover from the mess

I've just read more of the blog. Before baby Finn was born, she mentioned supporting him to sit on the potty before he could actually sit upright. If that isn't weird enough, weirder still is all the pictures of said child wearing a nappy

Its all false, no sane person could continue a life lived in that way. I work, stay home and home ed, but I still can't make applesauce, knit silly hats and blog. Not to mention keep a house so clean and twee.

Kew - I drop and run at parties too

Thanks MaMo. I did read on. He's still gonna wreck her life though. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow. But when he writes that book, he will destroy her completely.

ooh I forgot to add "Not everybody believes that it is possible to balance a career and bringing up children" - yes but not everyone is as clever as me [smug emoticon] or as prepared as I to give up every second of my life to either my child or my job. You see people who stay at home and can't manage to fit a paid job in too just aren't selfless enough.

OP has gone very quiet - I think she is blog lady.

god she is sooo twee. I hate her already

Very weird... I remember reading this description of Finn's room on a link from the TES forum about this time last year. It was completely ridiculed on there at the time, but I was actually oddly impressed that she was managing to do all this stuff while pregnant. We still need to finish paint dd's bedroom door and she's now 10 months old... Anyway I was thinking about it this afternoon, wondering how it had gone, whether that room looked anything like that now, and thinking I'd never know as my computer has crashed and been rebooted several times since I last read it and I'd have no chance of finding it in the browsing history... then here it is again, one of life's strange conincidences. Hope she doesn't become the brunt of many forum sniggers, I think she's really amazing

mrsDeVere - I hang my head in shame at choosing my house over my child. But to fair the child is not mortgaged to the bank... though there's an idea...

A school friend of DS's has a SAHM, she was in afterschool club the first week she started school until 6.15pm, her mother drops and runs at parties and has done since child was 3 and anyone around in the house puts the child to bed. But obviously she is a better mother than me because she doesn't work.

OMG I just read about the applesauce and I actually LIKED what I read... HELP!!!!!!!

Dione \link{http://redirectingat.com/?id=470X756&xs=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fsewliberated.typepad.com%2Fsew_liberated%2F2009%2F04%2Ffinnians-montessori-room.html&sref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mumsnet.com%2FTalk%2F_chat%2F1067353-Hilariously-PFB-Blog\look further on} she had Finn and is still doing all that wierdy stuff

Iv'e just had a look at the link, how weird. Now that is dedication to the cause of parenting .

Although I'm still sure we are headed into hell, where women work all hours and are made to feel that is the only choice.

OMG. Poor Finn's mum. She's going to have a baby and he's gonna destroy her beautiful nursery, sanity, marital relationship, figure and dreams of what it is to have a child.
Aww.

Ah ok I need to keep reading then (bang goes the early-ish bedtime)...

wrinkly - the PFB blog woman has had her child and is still maintaining the 100% dedication to the role thing.

No SHE refers to the mother to be in the first part of the blog that pisces linked to earlier. She hadn't had the baby yet and her description of his nursery is astounding.

I think this will be the new civil revolution: the rise and rebellion of the children of nutcrunching, lentil weaving parents, who made them wear home made clothes as teens. It is not going to end well.

I do wonder about common sense's role in life today? I don't see much evidence of it's existence any more. Which is also sad.

thank you pisces

I do spend my time of benign parenting doing other useful stuff though (not housework - they have to join in with that ) and it's stuff that has "deadlines" so I hope I'm showing them some sort of "work ethic" even while I'm not yet back at work proper.