Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

Original poster

How attractive could this be to a nanny?

72 replies

SuiGeneris · 29/09/2010 09:40

Hi, am a nanny newbie (meaning we are looking to employ our first nanny) and would appreciate some advice from those with more experience to see whether the following arrangements could be attractive for a nanny (and if not, how to improve them).

I will probably go back to work 3 days a week in January/February, when DS will be one; ideally I will be one day in the office and two days at home, or viceversa. We are thinking of having a nanny for 3 and 1/2 days a week, probably working 8am til 6.30/7pm on the days I am in the office, 8am til 5pm when I am at home and 8am til middayish on the fourth, for a total of 36/37 hours.

I would expect the nanny to cook from scratch and do usual nursery duties when baby is asleep or I am playing with him (e.g. for lunch break on the days I work from home). We have a cleaner, so nanny would only need to look after self and baby and leave kitchen and play areas tidy. I would probably want her to take DS to playground and possibly one or two playgroups, but most of the time it would be one-to-one care.

On ground rules, we have not thought v much about it, but it would be something along these lines:

  1. no smoking anywhere- not in the garden, not at home.
  2. No hot drinks in the same room as the baby- ever (I know too many people with scars from hot beverages spilt on them when they were kids).
  3. DS not to be taken to playdates with people we do not know. We are to meet the family at the weekend before playdates arranged during the week.
  4. DS not to go in places where there are pets/other animals/smoking (we are an allergic family, DS likely to be allergic too).
  5. no tv
  6. no ready made food, no junk food and no eating out for main meals
  7. DS to have culturally appropriate mealtimes (i.e. DS not to have had supper when returned to parents at 7pm)

Do we sound like the employer from hell or is this par for the course? All advice gratefully received

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
Set a reminder
Laquitar · 29/09/2010 15:14

blondes, OP is in london and traffic/parking can be harder than tube. If the nanny has only one child it can be easy and fun to use the tube in non-rush hours.

But it will be a shame to miss on the nice cafes in kensington. Let her have a cuppuccino and a nice baquete Grin

Original poster
SuiGeneris · 29/09/2010 15:08

Frakkinnakered- I think we'd get along if you were looking for a nannying job! You might disagree though...

Seriously, this discussion has been very useful, as it means that when I go home tomorrow I can start seeing if I can find somebody there who would like to come and work for us in England. Then trips home to the grandparents would be welcome as s/he could go home to his/hers, food and routine might be more familiar etc. But on the other hand s/he would have to start life in new country, possibly in a language they do not speak well. And that is not easy...

Do people think it is worth speaking to an agency when looking for a nanny that understands a relatively less-known European language (no, Frakkinnakered, we are not French, sadly, or life would be easier!)?

OP posts:
MilkNoSugarPlease · 29/09/2010 15:08

On phone so can't do long answers!

If yourserious about hit drinks, then by some travel mugs and ask that they use them with hot drinks

I've had to.do.this before and was fine with it....meant I.actually got a warm.drink.at times!

Meeting playdates etc before hand- I would hate this! And completely feel.you didn't trust my judgement....my boss has met 2 of our "regular" friends....doesn't ever ask about others and isn't fussed

Blondeshavemorefun · 29/09/2010 15:01

Up to an hour travel each way to a playgroup is too much for the nanny or child

why public transport? Do you not trust the nanny to either drive your car or her own?

Greensleeves · 29/09/2010 15:01

nope, I don't think f* with three of the letters starred out is aggressive, especially not on a website where "wtf" is one of the most common acronyms

I do think describing sandwiches as "horrifying" is a bit bonkers though Wink

frakkinnakkered · 29/09/2010 15:00
  1. How do you think this would go down?

Probably fine, you have good reasons but see below...

  1. Would most nannies expect to go to the playgroup by public transport (would prob take about 45mins to 1 hour)?

Probably, unless you want to pay for them to go on your car but then parking is a nightmare and it's probably quicker on public transport anyway. Given that, it might not be a massively popular, especially if you won't let them eat out or make a day of it though! Are you sure there isn't a group closer?

  1. Is bilingualism a put off if the nanny does not speak the other language?

No BUT I have found it difficult working with parents where they speak to the child in a language I don't even if they spoke fluent English. My Norweigan, however, did come on a treat.... Therefore I'd suggest looking for someone who speaks, or at least understands, your language (and if it's the one I suspect it is from the playgroup area reference, the snack and the fresh bread) it shouldn't be too difficult. It makes the working relationship much smoother if as a nanny you can understand what the mother has said to the child and reinforce it. Problems arise when you reply directly to the child in one language saying no, the other person doesn't understand, child asks them the question, you don't hear/understand and child gets a different answer.

I think you might want to look at having a fluent/bilingual nanny, especially if you want them socialising with the children of other families of that language. Your DS is so young that they will play together in the language of their carers if they have the choice.

Original poster
SuiGeneris · 29/09/2010 14:59

Starberries: interesting. Do you think the solution is to focus recruitment on nannies who speak my language then? The need for the playgroup would then be smaller, as DS would be exposed to my language through the nanny.

OP posts:
Blondeshavemorefun · 29/09/2010 14:56

Strix you have def lost your title and you forgot to mention no choc spread Grin

I'm also severley allergic to cats and horses

OP - it's good you listen and take heed of what has been said - means there may be hope Wink

again as frakk said, taking to gps isn't a perk and being away from home in my contract would mean extra pay/compensation

it all comes down to trust. Either you will trust the nanny you chose or you won't

if you won't/don't then no point in having one

Starberries · 29/09/2010 14:55

Taking everything in now - I think you're way too OTT. I think you'll find it hard to not only find a nanny but keep one as well. You want a nanny who may not speak this language to schlep your DS across London to a playgroup where she most likely will not be able to socialise with anyone there, and yet you have issues with her meeting up with other nannies you haven't met? Hmm

Original poster
SuiGeneris · 29/09/2010 14:54

Greensleeves- thanks for the feedback, but I would add that the way I have written this is not the way I would present it to the potential nanny. I am canvassing views precisely to avoid being offputting to the right candidate.

People who report to me at work have generally been v happy (anonymous feedback through 360 appraisals) so I would hope to be able to transfer some of those managerial skills to the home. Although I say I intend to work from home, I certainly do not intend to interfere with what the nanny is doing, which is why it is important to me to find somebody whom I can trust to care for my child in the way in which I would do it.

On sandwiches, these are my views for my child, am not suggesting that I am right or that what others do is wrong. For my DS (and DH, and me) the occasional sandwich when having a picnic is fine, but not for a normal meal, when i would expect him to sit at the table and have something hot and freshly cooked. But as I say, my views for my family.

Don't you think swearing at me for disagreeing about the diet of a child you do not know might be a bit aggressive? Wink

OP posts:
Original poster
SuiGeneris · 29/09/2010 14:45

Interesting one of nanny taking DS abroad, going off and just taking him back. Def worth thinking about.

By compressed hours I meant 36/37 hours over 3 and a half days instead of 5, therefore leaving half a week free for the nanny to do what she wants. In my line of business it is called compressed hours and is very coveted, so was wondering whether it would be similarly welcome by a nanny (whom we envisage living out).

And now another important one. We intend DS to grow up bilingual, as my first language (as you can prob tell from my posts) is not English; DH is English and each of us speaks their language to DS. We would probably want the nanny to take DS to a bilingual playgroup that is not local to where we live and, where possible, socialise mostly with nannies to families with the same first language.The language is a major European one and the playgroup is likely to be in Kensington/Fulham while we live south of the river. Questions:

  1. How do you think this would go down?
  2. Would most nannies expect to go to the playgroup by public transport (would prob take about 45mins to 1 hour)?
  3. Is bilingualism a put off if the nanny does not speak the other language?
OP posts:
Greensleeves · 29/09/2010 14:40

I would be backing away tbh

not because of any of the rules in particular, although the hot drinks/no playdates without you interviewing the parents/no cafes/no accidental encounters with animals are all quite silly IMO

it's more that you sound ver uptight and controlling and I would think that you were going to be a nightmare to work for

either you entrust your ds' care to a nanny during the hours she has him, or you do not

also what the f* is the matter with sandwiches for a child's lunch? Confused

frakkinnakkered · 29/09/2010 14:29

Hmmm longish holidays might be a perk, as long as you're clear it's all paid and nanny gets to choose her share of holiday.

Holidays abroad to grandparents definitely not a perk if nanny is expected to work. In fact it's extra hassle and some people will not consider the job if it's a requirement! If it's a case of accompanying DS on the journey, going on a jaunt for a week or so, and coming back then that would be a perk as the flight would be paid!

I think as long as nanny is clear about your expectations re: mealtimes that shouldn't be a problem - they just need to know that's what you expect and feed DS accordingly.

By compressed hours what do you mean? Mostly nannies are paid hourly so compressed hours, in effect, means less money unless you're offsetting it with a higher salary.

I think you need to interview nannies and see what they think. Personally I'd sit through the interview thinking you were a bit overprotective and hope that in time you'd grow to trust me to make decisions about playdates etc. I think it's fairly reasonable to ask, at least while your DS is tiny, to meet nannies before DS goes on a playdate to their house. Restricting meet-ups in public places would ring alarm bells for me though. You might find one who's fine with all your strictures.

Original poster
SuiGeneris · 29/09/2010 14:07

Many of you mention mealtimes as a possible issue. Would expect DS to lunch around 1, nap and have milk and bread with jam, a milkshake or something similar between 4 and 5, so that he has enough energy to wait and have supper when we get home. That's how it worked for us when we were children and it was fine.

OP posts:
Original poster
SuiGeneris · 29/09/2010 14:03

Strix: yes, I am afraid no ready meals, ever. DH and I never have them (and never have, since we have been living together), so would not want DS to have them either. Plus, I see it as part of the nanny's job to educate DS's palate (yes, I know this sounds pretentious, sorry, cannot think of another way of putting it at the moment) and cook him fresh, healthy meals. For when they are in a hurry, there is always some pasta sauce or soups that I have made and frozen.

But I guess all of this boils down to what many of you have said: find the right person, on the same wavelength, and there will be no need for many rules (expressed as wishes/preferences) because that person (male or female) will choose appropriate playdates/food/entertainment.

Some of you asked about perks. Not sure whether these would count:

  1. largish house with garden
  2. longish holidays (we tend to be away for 6 weeks every year)
  3. possibility of trips abroad (maybe when DS goes to see grandparents and we cannot go with him)
  4. would the compressed hours be a perk or at least something that makes the job attractive?
OP posts:
dinkystinky · 29/09/2010 14:02

Nanny employer here. No smoking, precaution around pets rules are fine - no hot drinks near the child fine also (most experienced nannies know to put on high surface out of reach and not to carry child and hot drink about - but you cant ban them from having hot drinks at all!). The rest of the rules seem abit OTT and are probably going to put off applicants. And your child may not be willing to wait till 7pm for a meal - my 4 year old and 1 and a half year old would be climbing the walls if they ate at that time (DH and I eat at around 8.30pm) so eat earlier. You have to let your nanny have some flex and to respond to the child's desires and needs too.

LadyBiscuit · 29/09/2010 13:56

I think the way you've rephrased the pet thing is fair enough. But I think the no hot drinks is probably a bit OTT. You need to be able to trust your nanny to be careful around your DS.

I also think if you were considering a nanny share you would have to relax a lot of your rules - or are you going to insist that the other child spends all the time at your house?

Original poster
SuiGeneris · 29/09/2010 13:53

Wow, did not expect this much interest. Thanks everyone for the replies- very interesting and lots of food for thought. Had certainly not considered that "rules" would send more experienced candidates away and leave the less experienced ones.

You all also make very good points about there needing to be trust- I guess not having interviewed anybody yet, I do not know whether I could trust them with the most precious and most vulnerable person in my life. Despite what earlier posts may suggest, I am in fact reasonably relaxed (I think) and the person who looks after DS currently (and who sadly cannot increase her hours) does take him to the park etc.

Allergies: passing dogs in the street or in the park is fine. Sometimes even going to a house with pets is fine- if it is very clean, has wooden floors and neither DH nor I sit on sofas, armchairs etc. Sometimes it is not, and I would not want DS to have first asthma attack on the nanny's watch (or mine, for that matter, but we are told it is pretty much guaranteed). I guess no pets would mean in reality "please don't take DS to farms, circus, zoo or houses with pets and be careful (e.g. cover sofas with a fleece blanket or similar) if children from house with pets come round". On exposure to allergens, DS's paediatrician recommends avoiding houses with pets. We follow her advice on other matters and would like to do so on this one as well. I was exposed to horses, cats and dogs as a child and they are the animals I am most allergic too (v annoying, as I used to love riding, but allergy got so bad- even with medication- that I had to give up).

And of course there could be sensible exceptions to no TV (but TV ok if cbeebies and only v occasional and limited time, e.g. when child is ill) and not eating out too often. Obviously better to eat out than to overtire the child by having to rush home and then out again when eating in a nice cafe near the activities would be preferable.

As one of the posters says, we only have hot drinks in a different room from DS (or a good few metres away from him). So yes, I never have tea if DS is within 5 metres (he now rolls v quickly, so minimum distance is increasing).

Sandwiches: as NannyNick says, it depends on what they are made with. The ones I have seen in some allegedly child-friendly places round here did not look good at all. Bread thing is probably being a foreigner, but we tend to have fresh bread every day (fresh as in made that morning) and would want kids to have that most of the time.

OP posts:
Strix · 29/09/2010 13:45

I think you are suffering from PFB syndrome. I am quite allergic to cats. SO, I have been on the lookout for signs from DCs since they were born. Now 5 and 7, neither has revealed a single symptom. I make the nanny aware of my allergy and tell her to be on the look out. I don't ban the children from ever being in a house with a cat. The only thing I do insist on (and it's in the house rules) is that a cat is never allowed in my house.

You want to approve all play dates. If you feel this is appropriate, then you are not suited to the world of nanny employment. When you hire a nanny you have to accept that she is capable of doing her job and sometimes you have to step back and let her do it. My children often come home talking about other children I have never met. Sometimes they are from school, sometimes the gym, maybe the local park, dance class, swimming... wherever. This is all fine with me. It's nice they have social skills and don't need me to help them make a friend.

No ready made food? Really? Ever???? I am going to pass the nutrition geschtapo title to you. My nutrition guidlines talk about the content of the meal, not whether it was made and frizen. For example:
1- no nutrasweet or other artificial sweetners
2- eggs for breakfast twice a week
3- salmon once a week
4- one fruit and one veg as minimum every day
5- No junk before lunch
6- no caffeine
7- no citrus fruit for DD (health reasons here)
8- crappy white bread to be avoided if there is another option

and so on... I'm okay with some ready meals. For example Youngs makes a fish pie with veg that my kids like. I am not okay with mcdonalds. When I spotted it on the credit card bill a few months ago I did ask nanny not to go there again.

nannynick · 29/09/2010 13:30

The bread used to make sandwiches can be shocking.

leeloo1 · 29/09/2010 13:12

cafe food for kids round here is generally horrifying... sandwiches

Really - are sandwiches horrifying? I'd say the no-smoking thing is fine, the pets thing... well it also makes me ill (although not as bad as you, more painfully itchy), what effect does exposure have on allergies? i.e. if DS exposed to pets from early age is he less/more/similarly likely to be affected?

Re playdates and cafes - I'd say you're being a bit unreasonable. I have nanny friends (I'm a CM) and we often go for a coffee/snack in a
cafe after going to the park - they bring food from home for their children (at parents request), but all the toddlers sit together and get used to the rules of eating out.

Generally if nanny is allowed to socialise over drinks etc then they're happy = kids happy. Nanny forced to eat all meals alone with unverbal child = unhappy nanny = unhappy kids.

Sorry disjointed post as had lots of interruptions this am... :)

SuperDuperJezebel · 29/09/2010 13:04

Sorry that should be 'some (not all)''

SuperDuperJezebel · 29/09/2010 13:01

I can't really add much to what the others have said but agree that some (not) of the rules would make me run a mile! I enjoy making friends for the children and myself and hope that my employers would trust my judgement. I am happy to introduce them to fellow nannies and their charges (I am keen for them to see how their children interact with others and the fun they have with their friends) but for it to be a prerequisite of socialising at all would really put me off. We have met many new friends at music classes etc and to turn down a trip to the park afterwards because my employer had not yet met them would leave me incredibly frustrated and quite isolated. Equally, I like to take my charges out for lunch occasionally - for example if we go out for a trip to the science museum, we may all go to the cafe there for lunch so they can spend more time enjoying the museum and sleep on the way home. Again, my employers trust my judgement to choose a healthy, balanced, child appropriate meal.

I think what you need to do is hire the best nanny you feel you can find, who you feel will be sensible and has good judgement, who will choose suitable playmates and appropriate meals. By all means ask to meet fellow nannies and charges but don't insist on it beforehand. Best of luck :)

chitchat09 · 29/09/2010 12:55

I'm a nanny employer, and I work part time from home as well, so in some ways my situation is similar to yours, but I have 2 DCs.

  1. no smoking - fine and understandable.
  1. No hot drinks - Really???? Do you NEVER have hot drinks yourself when your DC is awake?? WAY over the top for me, and my fab nanny would probably run a mile if I gave her that silly rule, and rightly so.
  1. playdates - You sound way too over protective here. This is a nanny we're talking about, not an inexperienced au pair or some teenager. If you are going to trust him/her with your child, then do exactly that, TRUST them, and give them the freedom to interact with other adults. Ask to be informed by all means, but that's quite different to what you're suggesting.
  1. Animals - I know it's tough with your allergy, but unless your DC is also allergic, you are setting them up to be forever scared of them if they don't have some limited contact with animals. A clued in nanny should be able to take the DC to a farm, bring child home and change them and pop the clothes into the washing machine straight away.
  1. no tv - fine to an extent.... but.... What about these scenarios - your DC is ill/teething and is just being a whingy pants all day, wanting nothing but being cuddled on the sofa. What's wrong with a small break of TV on CBEEBIES to take their mind off feeling so ill while being cuddled by the nanny?

OR, your nanny is feeling absolutely shite but drags herself into work because if she/he didn't you would be up the creek without a paddle because you have an important day at work, and has a bit of a tv/dvd day with the DC.

  • Just something for you to think about!
  1. Food - Wow, poor nanny. Never allowed to go out? (Or only once a month as you've clarified?) And poor DC. Eating out teaches them manners while out, and at a young age your nanny could probably take something prepared anyway.
  1. culturally appropriate mealtimes - well, that's a load of waffle and I think you know it. You need to actually set out what this means properly.

Routine - be very, very careful of insisting on a strict routine for your DC. Some routine is good, but don't you want a child that can be a bit flexible? What happens if on the day you have your DC you have to go somewhere urgently around meal/nap time? Do you really want a child that's going to be a screaming banshee if their routine is disrupted or one that will happily fall asleep in a buggy while on the move/will snack on something healthy until lunch can be given????!!!

And don't forget, that nannies do their job because they love children (if they don't they shouldn't be nannies!). With an inexperienced nanny you may want/need some extra guidelines at the beginning, but you need to be willing to loosen them as they get more comfortable/experienced in the role. Otherwise you might as well place your child in a nursery if you don't trust someone to look after them on their own.

chandellina · 29/09/2010 12:45

i'm a nanny employer and I think the overall tone is too rigid. I initially found it strange to have other nannies and children in our house and to hear about my son going to others' houses but I quickly accepted that this was normal and a positive thing. I wouldn't sit at home alone with my child - why should nanny? it's unreasonable to try to arrange meetings in advance and the other children's nannies are unlikely to be available at the weekend.

i would agree with the notion that an inexperienced or desperate nanny might agree to all of these, while the experienced, confident nanny you would really want to employ would balk.

A big part of putting your child into someone else's care is having confidence in that person and their judgement.

I trust my nanny 100% and that is worth more than being satisfied she is following a checklist.