Returning to work after second child and finding childcare impossible

As well as paying the Nanny's gross salary, you must remember to factor in the cost of Employer's NI. So I think the OP is right, she would struggle to earn enough to pay a nanny.

Hi cesoir, I had a mum contact me on childcare.co.uk who quickly realised that even my lowest rate was beyond her.

Allthough she had a young baby and was going back to work full time she talked of getting an aupair. I emailed her back and begged her not to go down this route for such a young child for such long hours and suggested that a childminder would be a safe and better option than an aupair.

At the risk of seeming a busybody I have seen too many unsuitable young girls without a clue being used as cheap labour and yes it does price nannies and childminders out of the market.

The mum did come back to me and thanked me for the advice as she hadn't realised aupairs weren't meant to do full time childcare

We worked it out so that we knew what we could afford on my return to work salary net amount and then looked at our options. We were 'just' managing on my DH's salary so that did make the money calculation easier as it was 'just' my salary to look at.
What we're going to do if I have another baby is another matter - we'd like to keep continuity during maternity, but with no salary to pay for it, we'd have to use our savings, such as they are.
It is so hard, but you should think very hard before usng an au pair to care for such a small child alone for anything more than a short time each week.
I know it's taboo, but lots of time in nursery is not great for kids under 3, so cm or nanny is better.
Maybe the best bet is combo childcare, but again there can be issues if there's too much variety in the people who're doing the caring.

Recent Guardian article here

Sorry to correct you, but the £243 of childcare vouchers is a salary sacrifice, the cash you save is only the tax on the £243, which as a basic rate tax payer is about £48 a month, it's not the whole £243 !

So, if you are taking home 2,287, you will take 243 off that and be left with 2,044. You will not pay tax on that 243 so can add back 48, but will still be paying £1880 for the nanny and taking home 2,092.

I was in a similar situation and it was cheaper for us to use a nursery. Typically our local nursery would charge £1,620 for two children on full-time places which is pretty good in fact for where it is (Cobham). I suspect though that a childminder would be even cheaper, great if you can find a good one.

I agree that you will save signficantly when your eldest goes to school, so I do not think a nanny is a good option, after school care is much cheaper. I spent a couple of years working and hardly making anything, but it was worth it to keep my hand in and my role was very good (25 hours per week) so it was worth doing.

Good luck !!

I run a maternity and nanny agency - one suggestion is a nannyshare which may help you manage the costs a bit better.

It's such a toughie, weighing up if it is actually worth going back to work. I too went back to work 14 months after my second child, but only 3 days a week (as I did after my 1st). My full-time salary is just a little over yours but I only receive 3/5 of it. I explored the nanny route and quite quickly discovered that it was too expensive to warrant me going back a 2nd time. So I continued with the nursery that DD had been attending, 3 days a week for both of them. I worked out that after the childcare costs I probably had about £400 spare a month. Once you factor in the travelling, parking, etc I probably didn't get left with a lot. But I went back to work more for keeping my hand in, and keeping my own sanity rather than the financial benefit.

Now DD is at school and both the kids are with a Childminder. The costs at the moment are about the same as Nursery as DD is mornings only until Jan. But from then they will drop significantly and then when DS goes to Pre-school they will drop even more.

If going back to work is important to you then I would say do it and take the hit financially untill DS starts school next September when your childcare costs will reduce significantly.

The only other thing I will say is getting myself and 2 children out the door by 8oclock 3 days a week is hellish. But I still prefer it over being a SAHM. No offence to SAHM's though.

Hi,

I would look at a childminder - we have a brilliant, very flexible CM who has looked after my daughter since she was five months old. She charges £200 a week for 40 hours a week. There's also a 5% discount for a second child. We absolutely adore her, not least because my OH is a musician and so we don't actually use her full time. We pay £50 a day, or £5 an hour. In my case I earn more than OH (because he's a musician of course) and so the calculation becomes whether or not it's worth OH working that day, rather than me. We're in Woodford, but another good option for us (if we'd needed FT care) would have been one of the Buffer Bear nurseries, which are not for profit. I think I checked out the Waterloo one, as I could have taken Mog there before work and picked her up afterwards, and still have had a decent working day as it was so close to the office, and it was around £250 a week for 40 hours.

If only I could persuade OH to get an office job ;)

I agree - it depends on the au pair themselves.

My new one has a BSc in early years and is doing an MA in Autism studies. He spent the summer running a children's club and is 26. And he is happy to work for £80 a week (he knows that being in the UK for 2 years and becoming fluent in English and having childcare experience will be really useful to his CV). Whilst my DCs aren't babies or even toddlers now I wouldn't hesitate to trust him with them (as I trusted my previous two).

Sure but they don't have to have limiting experience- in some countries they can financially struggle or come to learn english -you might even get a qualified teacher.
( which my friend was hen she came here as an au pair)

I suppose you choose and set your criteria but I agree I wouldn't pick a teeenager.

Oh please do not use an aupair for a 13 month old! Of course people do it but I wonder what thought process they go through to reach the conclusion that someone with very limited childcare experience, possibly still a teenager themselves, who is being paid perhaps £70 a week, is providing suitable care for their child?

I agree with you - it's terrible and I have been stuck at home for 7 years no for the same reason. It hurts me how expensive it is.
In response to your question- is your nanny expensive?

( I don't work full time so I wouldn't know....excuse my ignorance.

Another point- know a lot of ffriends who were au-pairs and they used to look after 2-3 kids at the time who were definitely smaller then 2. I think you should go for it if you have room- my friends has recently hired one and she pays her 70£ a week for 2 kids - she has weekends and evenings free. She has hired her from an independent web site in Sweden so she is not paying any agencies.

I would do it but I live in a flat so there wouldn't be enough room.

You need to contact each CM to get the latest vacancies.

Oh sorry, I see you've already looked there. Have you contacted any of them to see if they have places? It's possible their profiles might be out of date maybe?

When we were in London we did have to travel a bit to find the right CM (in Islington / Finsbury Park) but it was worth it as she was just brilliant.

There are some fantastic CMs out there - DS has been to two brilliant CMs (one in London, one in Eastbourne where we are now).

We found both of them through www.childcare.co.uk

childcare vouchers are deducted from salary - you only get the tax break, not the whole money. So your costs are lower but so's your salary. Not sure if that was clear from the responses on here

Jeez, £37k a 'fair' salary? You should try doing it on £20k!

Okay I employ a nanny who costs me gross about £16000 a year - def offer a gross salary. I earn about £40000 a year so it makes it worth it for me but I didn't go through nanny agencies - the commision they charge is eye watering! I advertised privately and was just very thorough in checking her references out. My current nanny is a little younger (20) and only on her 3rd job so therefore a little cheaper. Having said that I also offered her a "buyout" deal of a gross monthly salary as opposed to hourly rates which bought down the costs a little and she was willing to accept. Because she was less experienced than other nannies who have been at it for years she was somewhere between a child minder and nanny I guess,but she has worked out to be fab.Au Pairs should not do long hours sole charge jobs - they are basically teenage girls who may have had little or no training in childcare so there are no guarantees even if they sound fab.

In the past I have had various arrangements for childcare.

TBH I have only used CMs but have had two cm (one for each child) at times. I have also had differnet cm on different days in the past too.

It all works out in the end.

Not sure about the going rate where you are but I curently pay £5 per hour for my 16 month and then for before and after school care I pay £5 per hour for two children. (I have three kids - 2 at school and I preschool)

So 7.30am - 5pm costs me about £55/60 per day for three children. (2 at school)

OP: What hours do you work and can you do any time from home?

We use a nursery/school/after school combo which includes an AP and financially it works for us. Remember that there are always contingencies to plan for as well, when you are thinking how much you can assume in 'fixed costs.'

If a childminder can't do the hours your need and take both of your children, this combo could work for you too. You also need to have time to make sure you've recruited the right au pair and can invest in some supervision time when they're first starting. AND you need to think of the implications of having someone live with you who is not a professional and has expectations of YOU in various areas (some entertainment, help assimilating, etc).

Can your son possibly pick up another day or two full day in the school? If not,it MIGHT well be a bit too much time for an AP. Definitely don't hire an AP for full time care for the younger one, you won't relax leaving the house each day however much cheaper it is than the nanny.

My advice is to think about your schedule and run the numbers on a nursery, your older DCs preschool and an au pair and see how it compares to the CM and whether you can find one that works on yoru schedule.

It is depressing though, isn't it. £650 per month = £3.25 net per hour - less than half what the nanny earns.... and when you take off travel costs to/from work, lunch and the odd latte....

....and if the childcare vouchers go then that means net earnings of 82p an hour before th ecosts of workign are taken into account.

I did a similar calc for my staff taking into account things like need for business attire, tights, etc and the results were quite shocking. We estimated that staff who wanted to maintain at least outward appearance of normality relative to other staff (ie available to work flexibly on the odd evening, use staff canteen not packed lunches, participate in 'getting the coffees in', etc) and who worked within M25 (where nanny costs are high) had a breakeven salary requirement of £50,500.

No wonder I always feel broke and it's the nanny not me who is talking about getting a new car....

But, as others have said, it is only for a short period of time. Once the kids are at school it should get much easier.

I think it was decided by labour so don't know if it's still happening. There was also something about when you can sign up for the vouchers, no new people after 2010 rings a bell but I could be wrong.
Worth investigating though.

What? Why? Is this definite? :(
January 2012?

vouchers are stopping in 2012?

i've only ever hired nannys on contracts tbh - i hadn't realised there was another way to do it

Here is another option. If you cant find childminder for 5 days you can combine childminder and nanny. Find out how many days a childminder can take your kids and get a nanny for the remaining days? And yes you and ur husband can claim vouchers( I think they were planing to stop from 2012 if im not wrong).

I would def. work. Especially, if you find a job you like doing.

Good luck with whatever you decide.