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Original poster

Term Time retainer

40 replies

kkey21 · 10/08/2010 15:07

Hi just after some advice please.

Background is i only have two childminding spaces that are taken up by siblings.

One of which is starting school soon and won't be coming to me term time as my child goes to a different school. The child will need her space kept open for holidays so i will be unable to offer this place to another child.
I know a general retainer is 50% but the parents have made it clear that is not an option and i do appreciate that this is alot but equally i can't afford to hold it for free?
What is a fair retainer in this circumstance?

Thank You x

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Original poster
kkey21 · 13/08/2010 11:35

The parent really wants this space for her child.

I could 'sell' it for 50 a day

the parent wants to hold it, so I feel 25% of her current price which has been frozen for 2 years is fair as otherwise I loose out big time. If this is not a viable option they will have to look elsewhere and all the others charge alot more.

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Original poster
kkey21 · 13/08/2010 11:30

3 hours per day for my retainer works out more than 25% that I propose to charge! I would be getting £13.50 instead of £10 that I'm happy with!

I need the car as we like to do lovely outings and not stay isolated in our Immediate area. Equally looking after 4 children suits me and the family involved so do not want to take on another anyhow.

Thanks so much for your time in helping me... X

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PinkCanary · 13/08/2010 11:14

Sorry. £780 per year retainer. I really should proofreader my posts!

PinkCanary · 13/08/2010 11:10

Final points.

  1. you want to hold the place based on car spaces. Why would you need your car in the hols?
  2. starting school is a huge learning curve for parents as well as children. A few birthdays partys and It won't take long for the parents to find out how much their Childs classmates are paying for out of school care. Citing parental ignorance of local Childcare costs is not, IMHO, a justifiable reason for asking parents to pay you £7800 per year as a retainer. (2 days at 25% of £40 per day x 39 school weeks per year). the actual holiday care you're providing is a further £1040. I think what you are asking is unrealistic. That is why I suggested you establish wraparound rates in order to work out a fair retainer. You said yourself that where you to do the school care it would be three hours a day. Your retainer should be based on this amount of care.
Original poster
kkey21 · 13/08/2010 08:33

Argh...the space is there, I am offering it and the parent wants to 'hold' it and pay me a retainer rather than me fill it as she wants the siblings together.

I have two slots in my car so one would be empty term time and for that reason of course I can charge a retainer as the parents are choosing to hold the space.
If I was able to care for child before/after school then fantastic as I'd recieve 3 hours pay which would be fine!

May I just add the parents were not aware in the Beginning that you don't pay for a school aged child during school hours so I put them straight on that and hence the question in the op, what retainer is fair?

OP posts:
LesbianMummy1 · 13/08/2010 08:16

you can't have it both ways I understand you only have 4 spaces in the car but when children start school you loose money as you become wrap around or holiday only I think taking everything into consideration you will have to either decide they book days as they need them and hope they are available or end your contract you can not charge a retainer for a space you are not offering and definitely not during school hours as they legally have to attend school. You will have to just hope you get another enquiry for an under 5.

HSMM · 13/08/2010 07:56

If the child came to you before and after school during term time, would you charge them £40 per day? Is this normal for your area? When I did before and after school care I just charged for the hours they were with me before and after school (I know some people have a minimum charge for this). The way I see it is that as soon as they start full time school, they free up another space for an under 5, so they are not using up a space any more (except a 5-8 space).

If this is normal for your area, then that's fine.

Original poster
kkey21 · 12/08/2010 23:50

In a nutshell i only have 2 spaces for mindees that been with me long term, and on two days a week. Child 'A' is moving on and the parent wants me to hold the space so a retainer is an expected part (They know this and are happy with some form of retainer) as these children are my only childminding income. I don't have any other mindees any other time-and have only ever cared for this family since registering.

I won't even have before/after school care for the child in question, so not even 2 hours a day pay...hence the need to have some form of 'compensation' if you like for holding the space as they do not require the space to be filled as it is then unavaliable for their child when they need it.

Many Cm's i know wouldn't even entertain this as they need the full income.
I am a very experienced and qualified childcarer with many, many years of experience before childminding for this family so wouldn't have a problem with filling the two spaces at all but this is not what i am choosing.

I am bending over backwards to work out a reasonable amount that still makes my working day worthwhile as i am sure not many other people would work for £40 for a whole day and keeping my only other place open for free!

I am finishing with this now as have a meeting with the parent to discuss the way forward. Thank You so much for all your views and advice it is always very appreciated. x

OP posts:
PinkCanary · 12/08/2010 22:33

I myself have two children moving up to school this year and both parents asked me well in advance how much their fees will drop by. Yes, I'm going to be losing income but this is the risk of being self employed. I now have 2 spaces I'd like to fill, restricted to hours between 9 and 3, and I accept it is unlikely that I will anytime soon.

If I charged full for all the children on my books I'd be receiving over £2000 a week!!!

I worry that if you continue to maintain your entitlement to a retainer based on full time care it will cause a breakdown in trust and you risk losing the family altogether. I hope you manage to reach a mutually agreeable conclusion.

Original poster
kkey21 · 12/08/2010 22:23

Thanks HSMM, i do have the space for this child but her parents do not want it term time so want to hold the £40 space for a retainer.

I'm def going for 25% and thats my best and final offer to the family, thats me loosing 75% but as i have the sibling i am prepared to do that. Any less and its pointless for me, they guarantee their childcare during holidays with siblings together and get to save £30 per day during term, so hopefully they'll see it like that.

Thanks again for all your posts, i am going to wrap it up here and go forward.

xxx

OP posts:
PinkCanary · 12/08/2010 22:20

Can I remind you that this child will not be classed under the early years register from September. I do not know of any Childminder - anywhere - who could justify charging a full day rate for a school child as in order for parents to use the hours you want them to pay for they would have to break the law and risk a prison sentence. What many childminders do however, is combine the cost of term time and holiday care to create an average, so parents pay the same every week/month.
I charge my parents by the hour but if you use a daily rate i suggest that you work out a set rate for both before school and after school care. Why not ask your local authority Childcare Development Worker what the going rate for your area is?

HSMM · 12/08/2010 22:12

Oh! I should say that I do take these children on inset days and odd days when the school is closed for snow, etc, because they do not take up an under 5 space. If I had another school child term time only for school runs (and a bigger car), then I would just say I was not available for term time care for the extra child.

HSMM · 12/08/2010 22:11

Personally ... I have children on school holiday contracts and don't charge a retainer for term time. This is because I would not have space in the car to transport them to and from school, therefore there is no space available for them.

Probably got this completely wrong, so you can just ignore me. However ... we all negotiate contracts for our own businesses, so it is up to you what you think you should be charging (and what they are prepared to pay).

Original poster
kkey21 · 12/08/2010 22:01

The child requires NO care at all from me in term time but needs the place available soley for her for odd days/holidays!

My daily charge for this child has been £40 for over 2years so in line with recent hourly rates around here i could be charging £50 for these hours so need a suitable retainer based on keeping the space free totally. Many of my friends said 50% or nothing but thats high, i'm thinking 25% of the current charge or i'll have to give them notice.

Hoping thats clearer..I hate explaining as i know what i mean! x

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PinkCanary · 12/08/2010 21:06

I'm sorry to keep questioning, but I'd like to answer your query as accurately as possible.

I do have school aged children that I mind on a full year basis however the fees I charge for term time only are very different to school holidays. I cannot charge parents for the period between 9 am and 3pm as there is a legal requirement for them to attend full time education. I would think if I tried to charge school aged children Full Time fees the parents would be entitled to report me to trading standards.
If this child is receiving 2 hrs wraparound care then I would suggest that 1 hour is the absolute maximum you could request as a retainer as you won't have any associated costs ie snack.

Original poster
kkey21 · 12/08/2010 20:15

Yes loosing a full days pay as the child is going to a school eleswhere and a family member is doing the hour eitherside of school but family want me to save the space for holidays, so no child these days but retainer to hold space.

Yes my own childs school are aware but as i'm not based in the area where the school is, the local parents choose not to travel across a busy town to get to me when they don't need too as have lots of childminders on their dootstep. Equally i don't have a space, i just want to work out a retainer for the term time for the family that want their space saved.

Only had one enquiry ever into term time which was full time and i have other commitments in the week so only part time suits.

OP posts:
PinkCanary · 11/08/2010 22:45

Sorry, I'm confused too. If this child is starting school how are you loosing a 'full days pay'? Surely the amount you'd be loosing equates to the cost of providing out of school care (prob 2 - 3 hours per day).

Re: your variation. Ofsted will remove it as it is becomes invalid once this child starts school.

I too am surprised that you've never had any term time enquiries. Is your own Childs school aware that you're a Childminder?

Original poster
kkey21 · 11/08/2010 20:41

No change in days as i have another business to run...

I can afford to drop some £ as it personally is easier for me to have one in the day with my baby, but not too loose the whole days wage.

I am aiming for 1/4th so 25% of the daily rate or nothing and i'll concentrate on my other sideline. My fees have been frozen for over 2yrs so hopefully with this factored in, we can discuss. I am very fond of the family and want to come to a reasonable agreement where we are both benefiting.

Thank you for all your views on this and i apologize to Katymac as i seem to have confused you!

OP posts:
llllll · 11/08/2010 19:35

I personally dont think I could afford to keep a space open for parents just for hols. That would mean you would only earn money for say 13 weeks a year. If you are available all year round then you need to earn money all year round. What about chraging them a higher rate during the hols to cover when they dont need you.

tokengirl · 11/08/2010 19:01

could they change days, leaving you a gap you could fill?

Original poster
kkey21 · 11/08/2010 18:23

I have 2 childminded children twice a week and this child is one of them! So as one only wants to come holidays but needs the place kept free I need to charge something...not taking on other children as it would never work with the family I have already.

I have two children of my own-4 spaces in car...

OP posts:
KatyMac · 11/08/2010 16:55

But if the child was there 5 days a week how would you transport them?

Surely if you only have 4 seats in the car there isn't space for the child?

Original poster
kkey21 · 11/08/2010 15:14

That's exactly my point. I do have a space and the family want it, they don't want me to give it away hence my need for a retainer as I'd be loosing my daily rate.

OP posts:
KatyMac · 11/08/2010 13:51

I'm not sure (I could well be wrong) that you can charge a retainer for a child you couldn't fit in (iyswim)

I always thought that a retainer was for when you had a space & the family didn't want to use it (but as I say I could well be wrong)

Original poster
kkey21 · 11/08/2010 13:20

It's not about transport-the family have term time sorted within their own family and are choosing to keep their space vacant so their child has it for holidays-so I was asking advice on the retainer......obviously they are choosing to do this therefore I'll charge a retainer as I cannot give that space away....

Katymac I have 4 children and 4 spaces in the car

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