Natural Birth? You can do it!

Boogs, I'm reluctant to criticise because I admire you for being brave enough to start this thread and to stay with it!

Have to say though that for number two I knew that I would have an epidural. I wanted some God damn sleep! I knew what was ahead of me - sleepless nights, aching nipples and a two year old to amuse! God bless drugs! This woman would have been MUCH worse off without them!

Boogs, sorry I sounded like such a witch. Everyone is entitled to their point of view and I do actually approve of Janet Balaskas, Sheila Kitzinger etc and their 'natural as possible' approaches to childbirth, which is after all, a normal event. I also agree that childbirth is often over medicalised. I suppose I was taking issue with your 'attainable for any woman' sentence since I don't think it's fair that women should feel they've failed in any way through having necessary (and sometimes livesaving) intervention. I do appreciate that not all intervention is necessary though, completely. Anyway, apologies for sounding grumpy. (I had a home birth with just gas and air btw and may well do the same this time.)

Hi I have just joined and after reading all the below had to add my two pennies worth. My first baby is due in July and thought 'Boogs' comments were very positive. Certainly, research suggests that good outcomes occur in women who are well informed about labour and are realistic IT WILL HURT! There are a number of women who will need assistance and intervention through no fault of their own. I think that perineal massage and Rasberry leaf tea are all positive ways of approaching labour. Certainly the CS rate has increased and this is partly due to women demanding CS but again this is their choice, most NHS hospitals are trying to reduce the CS rate. In spain most if not all ANC is private and a friend told me about an advert she had seen which read 'Keep your vagina honeymoon fresh book your CS today' Certainly, I hope for a quickish healthly birth and would rather stay at home as long as possible but time will tell!! I think all your comments are valuble and that is why childbirth is so amazing as we are all doing the same thing but each persons experience is so different.

Boogs, I was inspired by your posting as I have just got back from a long discussion from a doula who is going to be at my birth. She told me that many births are induced because the dates are taken from the date of last period rather than conception date (which is not always possible of course) so in fact I am probably due a week later than predicted. She thinks that hospitals are only too keen to give inductions (St Georges hospital in London are just introducing a policy to reduce caesareans by not inducing so soon) and she told me it was my right to refuse an induction if I wished (to be honest, I would have normally just have taken the hospital's adice rather than refuse) and that I could ask for a scan which makes sure there is still plenty of fluid for the baby and it is not in any danger. Inducing a baby causes a lot of caesareans which would probably not normally be necessary and a close friend of mine resents being made to induce and have a caesarean. I really believe that home births in familiar environments certainly help women to have an easier birth and as I am only 15 mins away from hospital, I'm tempted to have one. My Mum had 4 home births with no drugs and no stitches , she was 32 when she had her first and 40 when she had me. She is tiny with non "child-bearing" hips but I really feel there is something to be said about her being at home to have her children.
I also agree that a lot of us are misinformed about epidurals etc. All my friends told me that I must have one so I've always presumed that I would, not giving the natural birth a second thought. I am certainly very open to having pain relief should the need arise....I'm due in 3 months so will keep you posted!!

I also agree that natural births are not for everyone - everyone is different and the most important thing is that the baby is born without any undue stress.

Wish me luck!!

Dig away, Boogs! Mumsnet would be seriously dull without a good debate every now and then.

I did the raspberry tea thing with DS1 (24 hour labour, goodness knows how many hours of pushing, ventouse, episiotomy & 3rd degree tear). I did it again with DS2 simply through the fear of what it might have been like without it That time I also did OFP (successfully) and perineal massage (unsuccessfully). Not sure what to try for my imaginary 3rd child...

The only bit I took issue with was the implication that everyone can do it and also (now I've read it again) the bit about mothers who "ceasarians without even trying to do it naturally which is better for mother and child". Sadly it's not always better for mother and child at all. Sometimes nature needs a helping hand, sometimes it's one that's wielding a scalpel

Anyway, welcome to Mumsnet - you're right not to let this put you off! Come along and post on the Supermarket thread too or maybe a Gina Ford one!

Many inductions are unnecessary. For a start, term is regarded as 40 weeks when in fact it is something like 40+5. Then, full term is considered to start at 37 weeks. On that basis, one could say that it would extend an equal time past, ie 43 weeks +.

My hospital books women in for induction at 41 weeks. Goes into fits if women resist until 42 weeks. Yet other hospitals don't induce until 42 weeks and some even 43 weeks I believe.

That sounds to me like an awful lot of unnecessary inductions - especially when you consider induction often leads to more painful labour - then epidural - ventouse - perhaps emergency cs.

It is natural for some women to give birth at 42 weeks. If medical staff are worried about the capabality of the placenta, then they can monitor the situation. They don't need to induce.

I personally cannot understand why anyone would choose to be induced when armed with all the facts, unless there was a problem with placental insufficiency or some other real problem.

Could someone else argue the epidural one please? Don't want to take over the thread

boogs - blimey you started something there girl!!
Just want to say your birth sounded identical to mine!! I feel incredibly lucky that my DD was in a position and small enough for me to get through the 6 hour labour (from 1st mild contraction to holding her) without drugs. I was glad I didn't have to go through it, but in hindsight gutted I didn't try the gas & air, it's supposed to be great stuff!!!!
I do kinda take your point, although I think maybe you just came out a bit 'holier than thou'type of thing. I thought it a bit odd at the hospital tour I went on that all the other mums had already decided they wanted to have epidurals! I just thought it was a shame they were going in with that attitude, but each to their own. I knew i wanted, if I was able, to have as a natural birth as nature allowed!

yes boogs we can see where you're coming from...and I'm sure M2T will also give you full marks for not flouncing off the site after all our 'feedback'

I'd just like to say that I'm due in 5 weeks and absolutely cacking it and will have whatever drugs are on offer!! Had a ventouse delivery with dd which was really horrendous but unavoidable, and am going to try really really hard this time to get by on just gas and air and be calmer, more focussed, more assertive etc etc. If I can manage with no pain relief then I will be really chuffed with myself, but I just want to get through it in one piece. I see your point Boogs, but I also see everyone else's. A rather emotive subject. I just thank god that someone invented gas and air!!

It's not like me, but I'm gonna stick up for Boogs a little bit here!!

She obviously felt that sharing her story was a way of showing people that may not normally have opted for a natural birth coz they just assume they will NEVER be able to do it without drugs. I think she was just trying to give a little encouragement for mums-to-be to at least, if you are physically able to, to consider a totally natural birth. You may surprise yourself!

But obviously it came across at first as a bit of a smug attitude.

Boogs, you meant well, and I think everyone here knows it, you've just arose a lot of defence mechanisms in people who feel they had no choice and did the best they could for their baby and themselves.

PS saying that most women don't look into risks of interventions is also insulting - on what basis do you say so? And panning inductions as unnecessary equally ignorant. My second was induced after going well past term. He was very big and I felt that the risks of allowing him to become bigger and with a harder skull were not worth it. My instincts were right, as it turned out he had a congenital abnormality which, amongst other things, leads to abnormally long gestation (and all the risks of placental insufficiency etc that brings). He would never have come out without induction.
This website is for discussion and support, not for first time mothers with no experience of birthing difficulties or problems to play holier than thou.

I'm not even too sure about the statement "we all want a natural childbirth".
What I think we all want is a birth where at the end of it we are fine, and the baby is healthy. Some women will never be able to achieve that naturally because of size of baby, position, physiognomy, etc. Some women know that they will be mentally more able to cope if they have pain relieving options available to them, whether they choose to use them or not. Boogs, you were lucky enough to have a combination of factors (one of which being your stamina/ability to cope with pain) that meant you had a relatively easy first labour that you could manage naturally. Well done and all that, but it doesn't make you a better person than someone who didn't manage it, and it doesn't put you in a position to lecture others on what they should want/need/do. Rather an immature attitude - "well I can do it so why shouldn't everyone else".
FYI I have no particular axe to grind, am about to have my third which I'd like to do at home in a birthing pool, but if I need gas and air I shall have it, if I change my mind and have it in hospital to enable me to have an epidural I shall do so and it won't cross my mind for one second that I will have in any way have failed or had a less than optimal result if at the end of it I have a healthy baby and feel happy and that I made the choices I had to make.

Clearly a natrual birth is not attainable for all women. However, it is generally accepted that to choose various interventions, eg. induction, epidural, continuous fetal monitoring puts one on a slippery slope to other interventions and ultimately often more pain.

I'm sure, for example, if more women read some of the research done on inductions and epidurals they would be fighting against having them rather than opting for them.

I wanted a natural birth the first time and was determined I would have it - part of my reasoning being that I am strongly advised not to have epidurals due to a back problem so was sure I could do it.
Well, after 24 hours of labour I was 2cm dilated as my dd was OP and would not turn despite hours on the floor on the birthing ball trying to get her to do so. My waters didn't break and I was in agony. I had some diamorphine which helped me to sleep a little, then back to it! When dd was finally born (after 37 hours, almost all of them upright) she was also, like Soupdragons, a nearly 10lb stargazer, and she had to be 'sucked' into the world by ventouse.
I totally did not want it that way. I was having no pain releif, no interventions and no doctors involved (except dh lol). I did a lot of the things you suggest in order to have it that way but it just didn't work out that way for me, that time.
With ds it was different, I had a little gas and air but that was all and he was born easily (partly because he was 'only' 9lb3!).
But people have different pain threholds and different labours. I think you were very very lucky to have such an 'easy' time of it with your first, and hope you can do it again with your next baby.