Caesareans - Interesting Perspective...

Reminds me of that line from AbFab, where Patsy declares that she can raise hemlines so high, the world's your gynaecologist! Must have felt like that had happened already MI - without the benefit of up to the minute hemlines...although the whole of pregnancy vaguely feels like that... Pupuce, interesting that you should say that about post-caesarian induction being different; I got the definite impression that the policy of the hospital (or perhaps consultant) that I was at was never to do an induction after caesarian - he was quite definite that he would always recommend a second caesarian rather than an induction (if trial of labour didn't work). Did I understand him wrongly, or is it different depending on hospital/ consultant?

Half of King's Hospital got a good look with dd1's delivery, MeanBean!

Not often you get invited to look up someone else's bottom.... how does one politely decline?

Just want to say, I also support the right of women have homebirths, waterbirths, epidurals, pretty much anything that feels right for them. For some of us, cs is what feels right and safe and infinitely preferable to any of the above.

Anyone who thinks ventouse is natural is welcome to look up my bottom.

I think it's a good and valid article. My cs was lifesaving for me and my ds, and I know it isn't for everyone, but I still think I was lucky to have quick, painfree childbirth as opposed to the agonies and indignities of labour, I truly do. I do think the anti-section movement and the NICE report are the enemies of womens freedom of choice. Glad to see some medical support for the rights of women.

Hi JanZ. I had to laugh at your post, as exactly the same thing happened to me recently when my midwife was going through my history and asked had I had any problems with my first delivery. I said no, it had been a natural birth, as had my second, although it had been a lot more relaxed due to not needing the epidural, ventouse, forceps, episiotomy and stitches second time around!!! She just looked at me, crossed out 'no problems' on my notes and started again!!!

The funny thing was, I always considered ds' birth to be "natural", which is what my automatic response was to the physio who was asking me questions about my damaged plevic floor (thanks to Pilates, damage which had never casued me any of the "usual" problems, which is why I'm only now being treated and ds is nearly 4!).

It was only as an afterthought I said - oh, I was induced, had an episiotomy, mid cavity forceps and a tear!

To me it was still "natural", as it was vaginal and I REALLY didn't want to have a caesarian.

wish my sodding episiotomy and ventouse had been easier, dammit.

Oh well, had dippyhippy waterbirth second time, thank you pupuce

I am not a fan of intervention as those of you who know me on here would confirm... but I have been at births where women were induced or where women had ventouse... it does NOT have to be horrible... actually to my surprise the 2 ventouse I saw were great! One had an episiotomy, the other didn't tear! They both recovered well... so it doesn't necessarily end up as a big trauma.
MeanBean - induction for previous caesarean is differently handled (you would not get the gel but you would get a rupture of membrane and maybe the drip). It is always better (of course) to avoid an induction.

Also I think there is a misnomer here, where people talk about natural delivery versus caesarian. Many vaginal births are not natural at all - ventouse, forceps, inductions, etc., are all as horrific sounding as major abdominal surgery, so it's not surprising that lots of women prefer the major abdominal surgery! I had a caesarian for my first child and was told by the hospital that nobody who has had a caesarian should ever be induced. At a different hospital with my second child, they gave me the choice of induction or caesarian. Frankly, caesarian sounded like a safer and less damaging option!

I think that's spot on about recovery time, LM. After my first, pretty tough, vaginal birth (nearly a C-section) I felt utterly outraged that I wasn't up and about just like Sheila Kitzinger had said I would be. I hadn't believed ANY of the stuff about birth not hurting - I'd opted for a mobile epidural all the way along - but recovery time had never occured to me.

Also curious that midwife experience isn't listed as an issue - I wonder if this is just a UK thing.

My friend gave birth to twins on Monday. She was attended by 3 midwives, none of whom had seen a natural twin delivery. Her main midwife had had 2 c/s's herself. At each midwife appt my friend was warned that she should expect a c/s. Even after the forst twin was born the midwifes wanted to intervene (drips etc), but the registrar made them hold back (to my friend's relief). The second twin followed 10 minutes later, and whole labour and birth was just under 5 hours, using gas and air. It was my friend's 3rd birth, and she felt fairly confident in her body. Had it been her first I wonder what the outcome would have been.

sooz, just make sure you have a plan a,b, c etc for every eventuality. dh was away when dd2 was 10 days old & I had my mil, then my parents over to help. things like stacking the dishwasher were nigh on impossible for a while and even 2nd time around bfeeding took a bit of time to get going.

Hadn't come across the "2nd generation c/section" problem before. Is it in fact indicating that there is a whole class of woman who wouldn't exist as they wouldnt have surivived the birth process without a c/section but now themselves are unable to give birth naturally?

I wouldn't dismiss the idea of women swapping horrific birth stories as contributing to c/s rates. I think that people do weigh up the pros and cons a lot more carefully but do want to talk to women who have c/s's. There is no guarantee of how you will recover either way, though I've found that with a c/s a lot of people are more prepared for a slow recovery and are in fact surprised with how quickly they sometimes do recover and therefore speak very positively about the experience. On the other hand women expect a faster recovery from a natural birth and therefore are more negative when in fact they find that they do have longer term problems. There then becomes a distrust with information again as women start to feel that they are being pushed towards a natural delivery but are not being given all the information about the risks that that also holds.

My sister chose to have a CS for her DD after having an emergency CS with her DS.. she had a shocking time of it with DS... I'm trying to keep an open mind about it.

Bundle, good to hear you recovered from CS2 quickly, as that's my biggest fear. I want to be up and about as soon as possible to look after DS and the tiny one. Last time it took me a long time to recover which I found really frustrating/depressing.

My boss's wife had 2 elective c-sections (by choice rather than need) and was amazed to hear that I would rather have had natural deliveries than sections!!!!! like i'm mad or something....

s'aright oliveoil! I'm wearing my white birkenstocks today...

sooz31, I had another c/s but because I hadn't had an epidural (they were just putting the canula in myhand to administer the drugs when I felt woozy, had buzzing ears - all symptoms of v low bp, something like 80/45) i had to have a general anaesthetic because they thought my scar might have ruptured. it hadn't and dd2 was fine, 8lb 9.5 oz. i was a bit sick after the anaesthetic and was quite relieved that I hadn't gone through a vaginal birth tbh. I recovered much more quickly than with 1st c/s, out in 3 days and made sure I took pain relief before i needed it iyswim.

oo, I'm the same... had CS with DS and am due in October... really want to give VB a go, but am pretty terrified!

Bundle, how did you get on in the end?

OMG Bundle I have forgotten to send you those Scholl sandals , I will sort them out. Blame pregnancy brain.

OMG Bundle I have forgotten to send you those Scholl sandals , I will sort them out. Blame pregnancy brain.

oliveoil, for 2nd birth I was PETRIFIED that I might have to go through vaginal birth,and it didn't hit me until the day I was due for an induction, so ikwym!

No eefs! totally agree. I had an emergency section with my dd. It was a REAL: emergency. I still got told by people I had an easy time and I think that is down to the media making out sections are easier. Forget the fact I had the birth from hell, my daughter got stuck in the birth canal and I needed a em-section else she would have died. To posh to push. Pah!

And I dont feel guilty about choosing a second section because they couldnt guarentee a baby would 'fit' through my pelvis

reproductive emancipation..
now that's a phrase and a half...
PMSL
surely you have a CS cos you need to or you want to, you can dissect the reasons all you want, but for women who believe in C sections, theere is no talking them out of it, and vice versa with normal deliveries, the more press negates c sections, the more guilt mothers will face...
Simple, mothering is about dealing with guilt, the birth is only the first in a line of millions of things we persecute ourselves for!

I don't know anyone that chose to have a section, I know I didn't. But if I am honest, part of me wants to be told I have to have one for my next due in August, am bit scared of giving birth