Caesarians are bad - Michel Odent now

I thought you might contradict me Mears
So many people do honestly think elective means 'just fancied one' though.

Clear and precise as ever mears. 2 things I have trouble with on mumsnet and in real (well dissertation writing anyway) life

Elective C/S is when there is a planned date for delivery as Aloha had for a specific reason. The reason can be clinical, previous C/S and/or maternal request.However, had Aloha's clinical situation changed prior to that date ie any bleeding then the C/S would have been brought forward which would make it an emergency.

Crunchie - your C/S were emergency. They were decided upon in response to a changing clinical situation. It can be an emergency C/S without being in labour.

Is that clearer?

sw, were you at the whit?

croak and hmb, my first 'emergency' was like that, Had horrid theartre staff and inexperienced doctor for second though

mine wasnt allowed in first time as it was a REAL emergency. 2nd time he looked dishy in scrubs

Was your dh there? Mine was, and looked rather dishy in his scrubs! I was so tired the first time that I was dropping off to sleep on the table, which freaked out the staff!

I always feel silly saying I had an emergency section followed up with "yeah it was really lovely and relaxed"

so true hmb

thanks for explaining aloha, really should pay more attention!! ds was elective though so no labour for him

Technicaly my first was emergency, but it was very, very relaxed. A friend had a 'real' emergency, quite different.

I hate all that too posh to push stuff too Mrs Grump. It almost makes me sympathise with Kate Winslet!

Croak I agree there should be a third sort of c-section. One that isn't planned, but is considered necessary even if labour hasn't started. I always thought Elective was pre-planned with the date arranged at 37 ish weeks. Emergency covered everything else, but who knows. Perhaps we could call it a pre-emergency c-section - one that is decided before things go pear shaped

wow, hmb, that's a royal flush...

Wow, aloha, that's at least the 2nd time today we agreed on something! When Sophie (Wessex) had her baby the "Too Posh to Push" brigade fired up again, too, sigh, and it was so unfair.

Was lucky enough to avoid a general both times.

First was failure to progress, after 2 days of labour. Dd's head position was such that she would not have come out. I also had pre eclampsia, with visual disturbances.

Ds was going to be an elective anyway, but he made it 100% sure by being big and a footling breech. I also had pre eclampsia with platelets, liver function tests and reflexes all to pot.

with dd1 I got to 8cm, foetal blood sample showed her to be acidotic therefore couldn't wait another couple of hours to come out, so was sort-of an emergency & had to come out though it was quite calm & signed consent etc (v shaky!)
dd2 - proper (!) crash c/s, no consent, bp, pulse dropped dramatically so she was born about 10 minutes after c/s first suggested, and I had a general anaesthetic. never crossed my mind not to tell people what I had, but I'm not a celeb!

My section was done in a pretty similar situation to yours Cruncie but was classified as emergency on my notes. I was admitted at 40+weeks with high bloood pressure, which had been being treated for several weeks but was now very high and I was on pretty much the maximum dose of everything, but no other symptoms of pre-eclampsia. Was told I'd be monitored and then probably induced and was taken up for induction that night. Was put on machine to have BP monitored every 10 minutes, which showed it was getting higher and higher. Registrar and midwives seemed to start to panic a bit and reg phoned consultant, who said that I should have a c section. They then tried to use lots of IV beta blockers to get my BP down before surgery but when it didn't work I was just taken to theatre.
Therefore I was neither in labour and nor was it a particular rush as they had time to try to bring down bp. I thought it was classed as emergency as it hadn't been planned in advance, I had to have bloods done very quickly and I hadn't been starved. If you only knew one hour in advance then I would have thought that your 1st would probably be classed as emergency too (hate disagreeing with aloha as always think I must be wrong!), and your 2nd certainly.
Seems like there must be a sort of grey area, whoch probably has something obscure to do with hospital procedure so would be interested to know what mears says.

actually it was ok - mad-donna was the only dodgy bit

oops
ahem - what I meant was SHE was bad. really

steady bundle
beety worked on that show

I have no hips , but its no indication of birth skill!
LOL
Thank god!

saw madonna in that dreadful arty stage production she was in a couple of years ago, she has NO HIPS

All labours involve oxytocin - oxytocin is what makes labour labour. It's a hormonal process. Fio2, you will have had lots of oxytocin during the process of labour and birth. Odent (whatever you think of his theory and I don't think much of it) is talking about c-sections without labour.
Crunchie -first one def elective. Were you in labour for your second? If not, elective again I think, though Mears may contradict me.
Mrs Grump, I wouldnt be a bit surprised if madonna had chosen to have a section out of pure choice first time - though I don't know - and neither do the writers of those medical reports. I am very sceptical about people who use celebs to support their anti-c-section beliefs esp after a midwife stood up at a conference and cited Patsy Kensit as a bad example to women for having a section, when she actually had pre-eclampsia with her second and he was in hospital and quite ill after an emergency section. I thought it was extremely unprofessional of her to slag her off when she had no idea of the clinical issues around the birth.

Humm... according to this , this and this , Madonna had elective C-section first time... it was reported here that she intended to deliver Lourdes by C-section from 5 months pregnant. 2nd baby was emergency C-Sec due to placenta abrupture, though, all the soures are agreeing on that.