What constitutes a natural birth?

Last night a friend rang and she was asking me whether I have decided on the c/s. I told her I was probably going to be induced.

She then told me about a mutual friend (well more acquaintance for me) who had her second DD at Queen Charlottes (where I'm booked). Her first had been a c/s and she was determined to have a VBAC the second time. However she didn't bother with the birth plan or talking to the m/w. She turned up in labour and apparently all she could say was 'I want a NATURAL birth' Shouted it over and over again. All the m/w took this to mean no drugs, and didn't even offer her any. After she had the baby she started screaming at the staff 'Why the f**k did you not offer me drugs?' and they all said because you were screaming you wanted a natural birth. To which she replied 'Isn't a natural birth when you deliver vaginally?' And they replied 'No its without pain relief'.

So thats the QC definition, which my friend learnt the hard way.

Its it really bad of me to laugh when I heard this tale, the lady is one of the stupidest people I know, I mean one of the main reasons she didn't want another c/s was that she couldn't get outside to smoke for 2 whole days after having her first. She told me that herself. Sorry different subject!

A natural birth in my books is one without any artificial pain relief.
I agree that you can be made to feel inadequate by other mothers who are proud they had a natural birth. I know many women who alwways go on about how they have avery high pain threshold and managed without any pain relief. The way I loko at it every labour is different and it's pointless comparing. When I had my dd I had an easy birth. 12 hours of labour, all very textbook and I only needed a little gas&air towards the end. I guess that was almost a naturay labour? With my ds, however, I was induced, had a very painful labour where I used all the drugs I could get and which ended in C-section. I am definatly more "proud" of all the pain and hard work I went through with my ds eventhough it was as "unatural" as you can get......

Seems that most of us rarely have a 'natural' birth these days on these terms, but why should we put ourselves through a lot of pain?

I do agree that there is a huge rise in CS and sometimes these are unnecessarily and because of this the art of midwifery has declined but on other occasions these are lifesaving.

A wee shot of gas and air is not natural either? I bet people in 'ye olden timess' took all sort of herbs and concoctions. It has always been 'natural' surely to try and relieve pain (childbirth or otherwise).

I don't think this is a clear cut definition because it means defining what is 'natural' and this varies. I think vaginal yes is difficult but with a little assistance is natural too.

We need a social anthropologist to answer this one ...!

Thanks pupuce! Ok, so 1st was natural baby, 2nd will probably be chemical baby, 3rd could be water baby so if we have 4, what will the 4th be???

My answer would be NO because you will not be allowed a natural birth (I suspect) you will be managed... it's not the anti B that doesn't constitute the "no natural childbirth" but - unless I am mistaken - they will recommend an injection for the 3rd stage for example.
If ALL you get is the Anti-B then yes it would be natural in my book of definitions (for what that's worth ).... but when you have something like GBS - the issue is a safe baby !

What about if you have no drugs to help the birth but need other drugs - is that classed as a natural birth? Because of Strep B, I will be having intravenous antibiotics with the next one, so can that still be a natural birth or not?

Honestly not bothered, just interested in the answer!

Fruitloop, I think when I had ds back in April was about a "natural" as it gets, 45 mins from first contraction to baby delivered by paramedic on our hall floor, no pain relief at all, everything happened too quick!

I had a c-section and felt I had 'missed out' on a 'normal birth' but after a while I just thought what is the point of stressing about something you can't change.

I now think that as long as mum and baby are fine, the birth is a success. I would agree with her Countesship and say that a natural birth is a vaginal one.

Not that it matters an iota either way.

I agree with Willow2 on that one. There is a limit to how we 'choose' to react/feel - sometimes the pressure on us is too overwhelming and/or the emotion we feel is undeniable (a boyfriend of mine who'd just dumped me kept saying 'you choose to feel hurt, you don't have to'!)

FWIW I think 'natural' means no drugs of any kind, but personally I don't give a stuff.

Sorry, have to disagree with you Pupuce. There are plenty of people out there who go out of their way to make women feel bad for the choices they have made - and even more who, through their insensitive actions, achieve the same result. It's all very well to say that nobody can make you feel guilty, that it's up to you to ignore the messages you get from others - but IMO new mothers are very easily bullied.

I think you are particularly vunerable when you've had a baby and more likely to be 'made to feel'a certain way. Sure 18 months down the line noone 'makes me feel' anything. I just hate to see my friends miserable when they've usually had a pretty awful time of it already. Suppose I'm ultra-protective and liable to snapping.....

I almost agree... but sometimes how the baby is born does matters a lot. Not because "my childbirth was better than yours", but because birthing a baby can be horrendous and traumatic if mis-managed.

Exactly - as long as at the time you do what is best for your child. If my child had been in any danger or the birth process was stressing me and her out, or she was having a hard time getting here I would have done and taken anything to make sure she was OK, but I was lucky and that's what it comes down to - luck. It's such a shame there are people out there who think they have the right to make others feel inadequate. The only thing i think is a shame is when mothers book themselves in for a c-section for absolutley no reason - they are just too posh to push - I think that's a bit sad - but at the end of the day - what does it matter as long as the baby arrives safely?

We've had the debate b"I was made to feel" before... no one makes you feel... you choose to feel like this!
I am sure this last sentence sounds horrible - not having a go at all but just wanting to put things into perspective here !
If you have to have a section than you do ! There is NO reason to feel guilty.... if you feel guilty - ask yourself why... IMO it's ab it easy to blame others !

Now I am going to be told off

I guess it does matter to me. I'm just so fed up of people being made to feel inadequate. My friend couldn't breastfeed because she had postnatal psychosis with her DS1 and was put on serious drugs to stop it happening with DS2 - so strong she couldn't breastfeed him. She told me that she was made to feel bad a million times over by thoughtless types. I had to have a c-section because I was advised my DD could die otherwise so I had no choice. All these months later she's so fabulous I don't care how she got here.

I would say if you were talking about natural childbirth that it meant pain relief free and personally I would include gas and air as pain relief. However I suppose gas and air is hardly drugs and therefore many people would say that if they managed a vaginal birth with only gas and air it was natural - and I'm not going to argue. It doesn't matter at all Weshmum no, but that's my definition on 'natural childbirth'. What matters is a healthy baby and how they get here doesn't really matter at all. I always wanted a natural birth and consider myself lucky that I got that, but like I say I put that down to luck.

Well, it obviously matters to you, Welshmum (judging by the repeats) harhar -- ok,now somebody can kick me.

CAM: actually there is a big movement for "unassisted" birth. I DO NOT advocate this, btw, but it ranges from midwife drinking a cup of tea & watching (only watching) a woman birth the baby, to not having any trained midwife present at all. And anyway, if midwife is just holding your hand & rubbing your back, can you really call that "intervention"?

The word "natural" must be one of the vaguest and nowadays most meaningless words in the English language. Right up there with "interesting".

Whoops - felt strongly but not that strongly! Sorry

Does it matter what 'natural' means? Does it matter how you delivered? How 'natural' it was and so on? It's exactly the sort of stuff that makes you feel really inadequate if you had to have a C section. Well I used to feel inadequate I've given that up recently.

Does it matter what 'natural' means? Does it matter how you delivered? How 'natural' it was and so on? It's exactly the sort of stuff that makes you feel really inadequate if you had to have a C section. Well I used to feel inadequate I've given that up recently.

Does it matter what 'natural' means? Does it matter how you delivered? How 'natural' it was and so on? It's exactly the sort of stuff that makes you feel really inadequate if you had to have a C section. Well I used to feel inadequate I've given that up recently.

CAM - MW don't always deliver babies some (a minority) ... just attend a birth... but I know what you mean

To me natural is without drugs of anykind... including no epidural and no synto (drip) or syntometrine (injection for 3rd stage) as they all interfere with your hormones and affect the delivery in one way or the other.
You can have painrelief like massage and waterbirth (or even a doula ) as they increase your natural endorphins levels but you are not injecting chemicals/pharmaceuticals...
Use of homeopathy/accupuncture/aromatherapy.... not sure where I would classify personnally.
To me gas and air is not natural (but that's my personal opinion)...