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How would you pronounce Zana ?

438 replies

RoseApp · 18/09/2024 18:38

My friend assumed people would pronounce her child’s name Zana like Zah-nah as in Suzanna but several people have pronounced it as Zar-na

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rosesareredvioletsareblueaimverytiredandsoareyou · 18/09/2024 22:32

HotCrossBunplease · 18/09/2024 22:27

Definitely a chippy pro-independence Scot. (I’m Scottish too by the way)

Did that sound cleverer in your head?

CellophaneFlower · 18/09/2024 22:32

rosesareredvioletsareblueaimverytiredandsoareyou · 18/09/2024 22:29

Your pronunciation of Bath presumably adds some sort of r sound?

If it does and yours doesn't, that's fine. That doesn't make your way right and other people wrong. Why can't you see that?

NoUseForAN4me · 18/09/2024 22:31

rosesareredvioletsareblueaimverytiredandsoareyou · 18/09/2024 22:29

Your pronunciation of Bath presumably adds some sort of r sound?

I will post the link I posted earlier as a demonstration of how I pronounce bath. It doesn’t have an aa or an ah sound to me.

m.youtube.com/shorts/NvcAExVYmLc

rosesareredvioletsareblueaimverytiredandsoareyou · 18/09/2024 22:31

OnlyWhenILaugh · 18/09/2024 22:26

Half the population? Who on this thread uses the same vowel sound saying cat and saying cart?
There may be an accent that does simply 'add an r" but I can't think of one.
You acknowledged that in your accent the r in the spelling changes the way you say the vowel sound.

Yes, the r in a word which actually contains an r!

BarbaraHoward · 18/09/2024 22:31

This reply has been deleted

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I dunno. I do think there are occasional genuine Irish or Scottish posters who are new and confused by it - I was utterly baffled at first, although that was a long time ago now. Then there's the well-established MN trend of some regional usages being accepted (needs washing) but others not (needs washed), and some accents being regional and unsuitable for a newsreader but others not being accents at all.

But it's late and I'm seemingly incapable of expressing myself so I doubt this makes sense at all. Grin

NoUseForAN4me · 18/09/2024 22:30

JustDeserts · 18/09/2024 22:26

Apology accepted. Welsh is a language but East Anglian is a dialect.

Maybe so, all I know is their version of Old English was very different to other parts of England so much so that it is often referred to as having its own language when discussing local history. It was retained until fairly recently I believe too, centuries later than the rest of England switched to modern English.

I’m not an expert though, clearly.

rosesareredvioletsareblueaimverytiredandsoareyou · 18/09/2024 22:29

NoUseForAN4me · 18/09/2024 22:21

…..ok. Sure.

But aa isn’t either. And nor is ah. Because ar, aa, and ah are all different sounds and neither ah not aa fit my pronunciation of bath.

Edited

Your pronunciation of Bath presumably adds some sort of r sound?

CellophaneFlower · 18/09/2024 22:29

rosesareredvioletsareblueaimverytiredandsoareyou · 18/09/2024 22:26

What about the whole of the UK?

Google says yes, in the UK.

OnlyWhenILaugh · 18/09/2024 22:29

rosesareredvioletsareblueaimverytiredandsoareyou · 18/09/2024 22:26

What about the whole of the UK?

The issue is not rhotic versus non rhotic.
The vowel sound changes in every rhotic accent I can think of between cat and cart. The pronunciation of the r is separate to the lengthening of the vowel sound!

rosesareredvioletsareblueaimverytiredandsoareyou · 18/09/2024 22:28

CellophaneFlower · 18/09/2024 22:21

And it's at that point that a normal person would say "oh that doesn't make sense to me. How are you meaning that? It's funny how we all pronounce words differently isn't it?". Not just keep repeating the same "there's no r in zana. There's no r in bath" monotonously again and again.

I'm repeating myself because I'm repeatedly being told that ar is appropriate.

HotCrossBunplease · 18/09/2024 22:27

rosesareredvioletsareblueaimverytiredandsoareyou · 18/09/2024 22:24

Nobody has called anybody stupid.
You've just made a really horrible comment though - do you want to self report?

Definitely a chippy pro-independence Scot. (I’m Scottish too by the way)

specialsen · 18/09/2024 22:26

Zar - na

Like Zara

rosesareredvioletsareblueaimverytiredandsoareyou · 18/09/2024 22:26

NoUseForAN4me · 18/09/2024 22:23

Actually, a quick Google will tell you that non-rhotic accents are the norm in England.

And Australia and NZ. And part of the US too.

What about the whole of the UK?

JustDeserts · 18/09/2024 22:26

NoUseForAN4me · 18/09/2024 22:15

I thought it was a form of Gaelic. I apologise, seems it’s a Brittonic language.

Apology accepted. Welsh is a language but East Anglian is a dialect.

OnlyWhenILaugh · 18/09/2024 22:26

rosesareredvioletsareblueaimverytiredandsoareyou · 18/09/2024 22:17

Exactly - half the people.
That excludes another half.

Half the population? Who on this thread uses the same vowel sound saying cat and saying cart?
There may be an accent that does simply 'add an r" but I can't think of one.
You acknowledged that in your accent the r in the spelling changes the way you say the vowel sound.

rosesareredvioletsareblueaimverytiredandsoareyou · 18/09/2024 22:25

HotCrossBunplease · 18/09/2024 22:24

That wasn’t me.

Faie enough. Someone did, I'm replying to several posters.
Please accept my apologies.

rosesareredvioletsareblueaimverytiredandsoareyou · 18/09/2024 22:24

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Nobody has called anybody stupid.
You've just made a really horrible comment though - do you want to self report?

HotCrossBunplease · 18/09/2024 22:24

rosesareredvioletsareblueaimverytiredandsoareyou · 18/09/2024 22:21

You said half, I'm quoting you.
I also understand why you think it's fine. Understanding why doesn't mean agreement.

That wasn’t me.

NoUseForAN4me · 18/09/2024 22:23

BarbaraHoward · 18/09/2024 22:20

In fairness, @rosesareredvioletsareblueaimverytiredandsoareyou may be a dog with a bone on this thread but she's not wrong here. Rhotic accents are the norm, so it's no surprise that using an R (that's an oar, not an arr Wink) to denote a long vowel causes this argument. Every. Bloody. Time.

It's quite an insular or narrow minded usage IMO.

Actually, a quick Google will tell you that non-rhotic accents are the norm in England.

And Australia and NZ. And part of the US too.

rosesareredvioletsareblueaimverytiredandsoareyou · 18/09/2024 22:23

BarbaraHoward · 18/09/2024 22:20

In fairness, @rosesareredvioletsareblueaimverytiredandsoareyou may be a dog with a bone on this thread but she's not wrong here. Rhotic accents are the norm, so it's no surprise that using an R (that's an oar, not an arr Wink) to denote a long vowel causes this argument. Every. Bloody. Time.

It's quite an insular or narrow minded usage IMO.

Is dog an improvement from pigeon? 😁

HotCrossBunplease · 18/09/2024 22:23

This reply has been deleted

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NoUseForAN4me · 18/09/2024 22:21

rosesareredvioletsareblueaimverytiredandsoareyou · 18/09/2024 22:20

They tried to explain why r is appropriate, it isn't.

…..ok. Sure.

But aa isn’t either. And nor is ah. Because ar, aa, and ah are all different sounds and neither ah not aa fit my pronunciation of bath.

CellophaneFlower · 18/09/2024 22:21

rosesareredvioletsareblueaimverytiredandsoareyou · 18/09/2024 22:14

That's the point - r can be pronounced differently so doesn't actually help clarify anything.

And it's at that point that a normal person would say "oh that doesn't make sense to me. How are you meaning that? It's funny how we all pronounce words differently isn't it?". Not just keep repeating the same "there's no r in zana. There's no r in bath" monotonously again and again.

rosesareredvioletsareblueaimverytiredandsoareyou · 18/09/2024 22:21

HotCrossBunplease · 18/09/2024 22:20

Nope. As has been made abundantly clear, even most rhotic speakers know what the non-rhotics are getting at when they use this method. Including you, from the get-go, I strongly suspect.

You said half, I'm quoting you.
I also understand why you think it's fine. Understanding why doesn't mean agreement.

rosesareredvioletsareblueaimverytiredandsoareyou · 18/09/2024 22:20

NoUseForAN4me · 18/09/2024 22:19

Which is why people also tried other variants to explain it you. Different ways to make it clear. Most people seem to have picked it up, a few have even commented how fascinating it all is. Not you though, you just seem determined to tell us all how wrong we are for describing something in a way that makes automatic sense to us because you don’t like it. But we did try. For you.

They tried to explain why r is appropriate, it isn't.