How would you pronounce Zana ?

I don't think they are- I think it's a big fat misunderstanding all round!
@hotcrossbunplease beautifully done. Is it wrong that I laughed that you'd gone to all that trouble and the @notatinydancer 's response 'Zarna' immediately appeared below! @notatinydancer you mean Zaaahna, don't you? Not a rolled 'r' in the middle? For the sake of rhotic-nonrhotic relations? !😊

It's still not an r sound. 🫣

It is to some of us!

Some folk are saying they actually pronounce an r sound though.
I can understand the extended a.

@rosesareredvioletsareblueaimverytiredandsoareyou

I am guessing that you, like me, have what is called a “rhotic accent”. Think Scottish, West Country, American or Northern Irish.

When we see a word with an “r” in it, our voices make a rolled “r” sound.

Think about how you say “car”, “door” or “margin”.

Lots and lots of English speakers, especially those from the South of England, are physically incapable of making a rolled “r” sound. They are called non-rhotic speakers. However, the presence of an “r” in a word does signal to them that they should lengthen the vowel that precedes it. That is why the “a” in “tar” has a much longer sound when spoken by a non-rhotic speaker than when they say the word “ta” (slang for thank-you).

For this reason,non- rhotic speakers tend to forget that “r” isn’t just a silent letter that tells them to elongate a vowel. They forget that rhotic speakers will make a rolled “r” sound. So they use it to indicate a long vowel in written English, hence its use to illustrate the classic North/South argument about whether to pronounce the word “bath” with a long or short vowel. They write “barth” to illustrate the long vowel, whereas something like “baath” or “bahth” might be more universal.

Hence “girarffe” is giraffe with a long “a” sound.

While I understand the frustration amongst fellow rhotic speakers of the way we speak being completely forgotten about, it’s pretty obvious that non-rhotics are not suggesting a rolled “r” sound be added. They literally can’t say them!

Hope that clarifies.

It's still not an r sound. 🫣

Well you are, you’re questioning other people’s accents? It’s the way we speak, it’s very common in the south of the U.K. if you turn on the news here that is how the presenters will speak.

Lots of words in the English language can be spelt a certain way but said another. Silent letters, words spelt the same but sounding different. It’s really common.

And rough and dough are a perfect example of that. The pronunciation differs without there being any extra letters. For us, bath is said as though it sounds like it has an r in it even though it doesn’t.

@rosesareredvioletsareblueaimverytiredandsoareyou

I am guessing that you, like me, have what is called a “rhotic accent”. Think Scottish, West Country, American or Northern Irish.

When we see a word with an “r” in it, our voices make a rolled “r” sound.

Think about how you say “car”, “door” or “margin”.

Lots and lots of English speakers, especially those from the South of England, are physically incapable of making a rolled “r” sound. They are called non-rhotic speakers. However, the presence of an “r” in a word does signal to them that they should lengthen the vowel that precedes it. That is why the “a” in “tar” has a much longer sound when spoken by a non-rhotic speaker than when they say the word “ta” (slang for thank-you).

For this reason,non- rhotic speakers tend to forget that “r” isn’t just a silent letter that tells them to elongate a vowel. They forget that rhotic speakers will make a rolled “r” sound. So they use it to indicate a long vowel in written English, hence its use to illustrate the classic North/South argument about whether to pronounce the word “bath” with a long or short vowel. They write “barth” to illustrate the long vowel, whereas something like “baath” or “bahth” might be more universal.

Hence “girarffe” is giraffe with a long “a” sound.

While I understand the frustration amongst fellow rhotic speakers of the way we speak being completely forgotten about, it’s pretty obvious that non-rhotics are not suggesting a rolled “r” sound be added. They literally can’t say them!

Hope that clarifies.

@rosesareredvioletsareblueaimverytiredandsoareyou

I am guessing that you, like me, have what is called a “rhotic accent”. Think Scottish, West Country, American or Northern Irish.

When we see a word with an “r” in it, our voices make a rolled “r” sound.

Think about how you say “car”, “door” or “margin”.

Lots and lots of English speakers, especially those from the South of England, are physically incapable of making a rolled “r” sound. They are called non-rhotic speakers. However, the presence of an “r” in a word does signal to them that they should lengthen the vowel that precedes it. That is why the “a” in “tar” has a much longer sound when spoken by a non-rhotic speaker than when they say the word “ta” (slang for thank-you).

For this reason,non- rhotic speakers tend to forget that “r” isn’t just a silent letter that tells them to elongate a vowel. They forget that rhotic speakers will make a rolled “r” sound. So they use it to indicate a long vowel in written English, hence its use to illustrate the classic North/South argument about whether to pronounce the word “bath” with a long or short vowel. They write “barth” to illustrate the long vowel, whereas something like “baath” or “bahth” might be more universal.

Hence “girarffe” is giraffe with a long “a” sound.

While I understand the frustration amongst fellow rhotic speakers of the way we speak being completely forgotten about, it’s pretty obvious that non-rhotics are not suggesting a rolled “r” sound be added. They literally can’t say them!

Hope that clarifies.

The best one is when you ask people whether "put" and "but" rhyme, because for northerners they always rhyme and for southerners they don't. Ask a southerner to pronounce them to a northener and watch the complete look of shock as they can hear it's different but can't make them not-rhyme themselves.

I'm in London and everybody speaks this way here.

Some folk are saying they actually pronounce an r sound though.
I can understand the extended a.

I'm neither rude nor ignorant, thanks.
Following pronunciation rules, as in your 'ough' example, isn't the same as adding random letters and altering pronunciation.
There's no reason to add an r sound.

It's not the letter, it's the sound. People are just using the r to make it clear what sound they're using.

In non rhotic accents we don't actually say the r separately. We just say a long 'aaa' sound. Like at the doctors when you're a kid- 'say aaaaah'!

People using their own versions of phonetic spellings has created a load of confusion on this thread, so to increase it, I'd say Zaaahna 😂

This is a better description possibly than adding the ‘r’ to the spelling!

Because that’s our accent. It’s quite common?

Do you pronounce rough and dough the same? The English language is more complex than ‘but there’s no r in it’.

I’m not sure if you’re rude or just ignorant.