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Baby names

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Seánna? - correct spelling

63 replies

suzettenoisette · 25/09/2023 23:21

This is just for a middle name, the second middle name to be exact. We want to honor a Seán. I do like Seán and I do like shaw-na, the way it sounds. I do, however, dislike the way Shauna and Shawna look.

I don't mind Seána, but I think it would get see-ann-a, but as a middle name it won't matter much. I do like Seánna a lot.

Now my questions is, would this be spelt Seánna or Seanna correctly? I know that Seán is the Irish spelling, but does the fada stay, when it is feminised?

Does Seánna work? First name is still not decided on, but we like Samantha, Sabrina, Poppy, Holly, Selena and Haley.

OP posts:
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Ssme92 · 02/10/2023 20:24

Love love love Seána!!! (I'm an Irish teacher and was considering using this name and this spelling for our girl). I'm not a fan of it with the 2 N's, don't know why!

I'm not a fan of the Shawna spelling! Don't mind Shauna or Shaunagh!

Defo not Shona as to me that's an entirely different pronounciation!

LizzieAnt · 01/10/2023 10:19

There is a Saint Brónach I think, maybe that's why it was used.

SunnyFog · 01/10/2023 10:03

Yes, but Brónach is a strange name to give a baby. Bronnadh or Broinneach (Gift, or “bosom child”) are much nicer meanings.

LizzieAnt · 01/10/2023 09:25

Pretty sure the -agh came from a time when many people added a soft guttural sound to the end of words.

Well yes, but they weren't randomly adding a gutteral sound. Agh is usually an anglicisation of ach/each in words. You see it in a lot of names, especially placenames. The ch sound in Irish is not found in English so spellings and pronunciations were approximated.

Adding ach/each to a word in Irish can make it an adjective. So for example, an draighean (sounds like dryn) is the blackthorn bush but add an 'ach' and it means blackthorny (draigheanach)... and so was often used to describe places. Anglicised it became Drinagh, Dreenagh etc.
'Achadh' translates as field and 'each' as horse so these words were often in placenames and again they were often anglicised 'agha' or 'agh'. Áth (a ford) sometimes got turned into 'agh' too.

Examples of names (as well as Clodagh) include Bronagh from Brónach. It means sorrowful from the root brón, sorrow. Some other examples have fallen out of use now. Agh is so common in anglicised Irish names/placenames that it's sometimes since been added to names ending in the letter 'a' to give them an Irish flavour as pp have described. This can happen even if the names are Irish already, eg Orlagh instead of Órla or Órlaith.

SunnyFog · 01/10/2023 07:39

Pretty sure the -agh came from a time when many people added a soft guttural sound to the end of words. That Hiberno-English accent that pronounced the h in wh.
Had a funny conversation with some teenagers who all had names like Caitlin, Clodagh, Baileigh. They thought Irish was English with an Irish accent, and that their names were spelt “the Irish way”.

theduchessofspork · 29/09/2023 22:36

WhyOhWine · 28/09/2023 15:12

Ah ok, so Clodagh is anglicised? I cant immediately think of any English names than end in AGH

It was often used for a sort of faux Celtic feel, like Rosanagh or Oonagh

theduchessofspork · 29/09/2023 22:34

Seána

Keep it simple

ohbaby22 · 29/09/2023 09:08

I know 2 Seanna's (no fada) and they both pronounce it Shauna. I also know a Seauna which she also pronounces Shauna. I don't know if they follow the 'rules' but they definitely use the Shauna pronunciation. I am in N. Ireland.

LizzieAnt · 28/09/2023 15:38

Yes, apparently the girls' name originated when the 5th Marquess of Waterford named his daughter after a river that ran through his estate. The river's name is An Chlóideach in Irish.

WhyOhWine · 28/09/2023 15:12

Ah ok, so Clodagh is anglicised? I cant immediately think of any English names than end in AGH

LizzieAnt · 28/09/2023 14:32

'Agh' at the end of a name is an anglicised spelling too.

WhyOhWine · 28/09/2023 13:59

i once knew a Shaunagh which i thought was a bit odd as the ending looks Irish whereas the first part looks anglicised.

KirstenBlest · 28/09/2023 13:55

Names evolve in a different way to how languages evolve.

LizzieAnt · 28/09/2023 09:11

SunnyFog · 28/09/2023 07:26

Languages evolve.
Who has the authority to say one new word is authentic and another is not?

I'm certainly not an authority but this is my take on it: yes, languages evolve, but names evolve a bit differently.

In the case of Séana, I think it evolved outside Ireland and went Seán to Shaun/Shawn to Shauna/Shawna and then back to Seána in Ireland. I'm not completely sure of this, but if you look at the baby names in the CSO listings from 1964 you'll see that Shauna was very much more popular in Ireland than the spelling Seána. It started gaining popularity in the 70s and peaked at no. 6 in the charts in 1993. Seána has never been nearly as widely used.

Think of the French name Madeleine and then a spelling of the name often used in America, Madilyn. Is it more correct to say the spelling Madilyn is French or that it's derived from the French Madeleine? Would you really say that the French language has evolved to include the spelling Madilyn - because I wouldn't. And neither has the Irish language evolved to add the letter 'a' to a name to feminise it.

I do consider Seána an Irish name but not an Irish language one. It's a bit of a mix as many names are.

SequinsandStiIettos · 28/09/2023 07:47

Shona is Shona
Sheena is Sheena
Sean is Shaun
I taught a Shana once (Shay-na)
Shawna is lovely and is a middle name for you anyway, so I'd spell it how you like but Seána Kerslake has one r (still has to tell others it is Shawn-a).

SunnyFog · 28/09/2023 07:26

Languages evolve.
Who has the authority to say one new word is authentic and another is not?

Showercurtainofdoom · 27/09/2023 23:38

Seodhna

bellarosabella · 27/09/2023 23:26

I agree with the people who wrote that it's not an authentic Irish name, no matter how it's spelt. The spelling I've seen the most is Shawna, followed by Shauna and I've seen Seána a few times as well. Most Shawnas I know were born in the 1970s. I have no idea if Seánna works, but the one that looks best to me is Seána, so I'd go with that. Good luck, OP.

LizzieAnt · 27/09/2023 23:03

Shauna is not a traditional name in general and anglicised whereas Seána works in the Irish language.

Seána doesn't actually work in the Irish language though @suzettenoisette.
Seán is obviously Irish language, but sticking an 'a' on the end to make it feminine isn't something that's done in Irish. So, while you could of course say it's a derivation of an Irish language name, it's not really Irish language itself iyswim.
That said, it's absolutely fine to use it. It's an established spelling of the name although not as well known as Shauna. Or do use Seánna if you prefer - it's an original spelling but that's fine too if you're happy with it. It's a middle name anyway so shouldn't cause confusion for your daughter.

suzettenoisette · 27/09/2023 22:37

Resentful2023 · 27/09/2023 15:09

That's why I'm saying she can't square this circle. She wants a name that honours Seán and it seems important that it have the same pronunciation and abide by a traditional name format (traditionally feminine, has heritage). Shauna is that name. Seána maybe too (although I don't really know that name in use the same way that Shauna is). She seems to want people to tell her that Seánna does that, but it doesn't and is shooting down all other suggestions. She can use the name Seànna and decide to pronounce it Shawna, but it has nothing to do with the Irish language at that point. Sorry, just get a bit fed up with how Irish names are sometimes discussed here on Mumsnet.

I don't know which thread you've been reading, but several people from Ireland have actually told me here that Seána works perfectly and that Seánna would work with a slightly altered pronunciation, which I would be fine with.

You're acting like Shauna is a very traditional name, that I want to butcher, when quite the opposite is the case. Shauna is not a traditional name in general and anglicised whereas Seána works in the Irish language.

It's as if I wanted to use Seán and you'd be fed up because I don't want to spell it Shaun.

I honestly think that you're not here to be helpful, but to cause a fight and I'm not having it. Be kind or leave this thread, please. Your posts will be ignored from now on.

OP posts:
PurpleChrayne · 27/09/2023 15:41

How about Seáneen?

Iloveshoes123 · 27/09/2023 15:25

Op, if it's a middle name (that no-one will ever use) and you like Seánna just use it. It's obvious to me how it would be pronounced (Seán-na) and if people get it wrong you can just tell them. I think you need the fada for it to work sounds wise.

Resentful2023 · 27/09/2023 15:09

LizzieAnt · 27/09/2023 14:20

Absolutely, but OP dislikes the spelling so doesn't want to use it.

That's why I'm saying she can't square this circle. She wants a name that honours Seán and it seems important that it have the same pronunciation and abide by a traditional name format (traditionally feminine, has heritage). Shauna is that name. Seána maybe too (although I don't really know that name in use the same way that Shauna is). She seems to want people to tell her that Seánna does that, but it doesn't and is shooting down all other suggestions. She can use the name Seànna and decide to pronounce it Shawna, but it has nothing to do with the Irish language at that point. Sorry, just get a bit fed up with how Irish names are sometimes discussed here on Mumsnet.

KirstenBlest · 27/09/2023 14:32

Not quite, but that's how Seonagh says her name

LizzieAnt · 27/09/2023 14:20

Resentful2023 · 27/09/2023 14:09

Well I've lived in Ireland all my life and Shauna is a real name as far as I'm aware. Plenty of Shaunas in the country.

Absolutely, but OP dislikes the spelling so doesn't want to use it.

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