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Baby names

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Spelling of an Irish name

135 replies

HRSC · 21/05/2023 10:54

I am due to have my first baby (girl) in August. My husband is Irish and I am British and we live in Portugal (which is where I grew up and where the majority of my family lives).

We have decided to give the baby an Irish name and now we are discussing the spelling of the name. The name we’ve chosen in Niamh which is easy to say in Portuguese but is going to be minefield for anyone to try and read (or spell!).

Do we stick with the traditional Irish spelling and she has an issue whenever anyone tries to read or spell her name or do we go for a different spelling which can be read much more easily by non English speaking people? (Like Neve or Nieve etc)

We are not likely to ever move to Ireland, most likely we will stay in Portugal so this will be something that she will have to deal with for her whole life.

What are your opinions on this? My husband and I can’t decide.

*I have a name that Portuguese people struggle to read and it is a pain when I’m booking a restaurant or at at doctors appointments etc so I often just give my middle name which is more translatable when booking restaurants etc)

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user1492757084 · 21/05/2023 13:33

I would go with the traditional spelling or choose another name.

Sofia Niamh
Lara Niamh
Sarah Niamh
Hannah Niamh
Cloe Niamh
Erin Beatriz

briansgardenshed · 21/05/2023 13:26

DuchessOfSausage · 21/05/2023 11:24

Do they, @briansgardenshed ? Do you mean names from languages that don't use the latin alphabet?

If OP used Neve, that would be changing an irish spelling of a name to a spelling that in Portuguese is the word for snow and not pronounced Nee'v.

Yes I mean languages which both do and don't use the same alphabets. I have travelled extensively and my name is pronounced in the way that is easiest for the culture and language I'm in. And in the three countries I lived in, in informal situations, (not passports etc!!), I changed the spelling to make reading and pronunciation easier. (And Down Native gave some other common examples)

But I make no comment on the OP's dilemma.

DuchessOfSausage · 21/05/2023 13:24

@DownNative , Bruce Lee doesn't countt, because it was a stage name. Lots of actors use stage names (David Tennant, Marilyn Monroe, etc)

I have worked with people who call themselves names like Les, Peter, Katie etc instead of Leszek, Piotr, Ekaterina but they chose to do that to their own name, and they probably did it because their names were mispronounced.

CurlewKate · 21/05/2023 13:22

"Don't butcher a traditional name by spelling it Neve because some people are ignorant or lazy."

It's not ignorant or lazy to not know how to spell or pronounce something. Obviously, they just have to ask. But imagine being asked, every day for the rest of your life...

AgnesX · 21/05/2023 12:36

Niamh is one of the easier names too ...but you'll be setting your child up for a lifetime of having her name misspelled or mispronounced. Neve is a lot easier!

DownNative · 21/05/2023 12:32

briansgardenshed · 21/05/2023 11:15

Other cultures most definitely do change spellings to be easier for their new adopted culture, (especially surnames).

Correct other cultures do change names and spellings to accommodate others. A famous example is Li Jun Fan and this person is much better known as Bruce Lee. Polish people are known to change theirs too, e.g., Piotr to Peter, Lukasz to Lucas, Patrycja to Patricia, Ryszard to Richard, etc.

It's pretty common.

@HRSC spell it however you want - Niamh, Neve, Naeve, etc. There's no rule that says you have to stick with the traditional spelling. All names evolve and change over time.

BlackLambAndGreyFalcon · 21/05/2023 12:30

I would pronounce Neve and Niamh slightly differently. Neve to rhyme with Eve and Niamh like "Nee-uv" with a very slight "uv" sound at the end.

Alloveragain3 · 21/05/2023 12:16

You can't spell it Neve, as all of the Portuguese would call her "nev" (or snow, as you say).

Definitely has to be Niamh

DuchessOfSausage · 21/05/2023 12:00

CurlewKate · 21/05/2023 11:43

I wish people wouldn't say "people will soon learn." Yes they will. That group of people. But there's then the next group. And the next. And the next. For the rest of her life.

Quite.
People don't like being corrected, Sone people can't be taught because they don't care/have no natural ear etc

AncientBallerina · 21/05/2023 11:57

CurlewKate · 21/05/2023 11:43

I wish people wouldn't say "people will soon learn." Yes they will. That group of people. But there's then the next group. And the next. And the next. For the rest of her life.

This.
I work with a lot of Irish women and lots of people don’t get the names even when told the correct pronunciation. And every time a new person joins a meeting the whole rigmarole starts again! Niamh gets called Ny-am. I would use Niamh as a middle name and use a more universally pronounceable Irish name for her first as you seem quite an international family! Caitriona, Cara, Ciara, Emer/Eimear, Clíona, Orla (not Órfhlaith 😊) Gobnait (😬). Maybe get a book of Irish girls names and go through them - you might find one you love as much as Niamh. Good luck - it’s a lovely thing to be naming a baby girl.

sanityisamyth · 21/05/2023 11:50

Niamh is absolutely fine. Don't butcher a traditional name by spelling it Neve because some people are ignorant or lazy.

StephanieSuperpowers · 21/05/2023 11:49

It's not really clear why Portuguese people would find an anglicised version of anything more intuitive than the original version? They aren't secret English speakers?

fireflyloo · 21/05/2023 11:45

Traditional. The beauty of Irish names is their spellings. I hate it when they are anglicised.

Beautiful3 · 21/05/2023 11:45

Honestly I always think it's wrong to change the spellings. It turns it from a traditional name, to something else. However i know of one mum who changed her daughter's name spelling, because everyone got her French name wrong. It really got her down. She changed it to something English people would phonetically pronounce correctly. But the grandparents were up.in arms about it, saying it's bastardising their name name.

BobsYerAunty · 21/05/2023 11:45

The beauty is in the spelling as well as the sound of the name. It’s such a lovely Irish name. I personally wouldn’t butcher it with a made up spelling.

CurlewKate · 21/05/2023 11:43

I wish people wouldn't say "people will soon learn." Yes they will. That group of people. But there's then the next group. And the next. And the next. For the rest of her life.

LadyMargaretDevereux · 21/05/2023 11:41

I vote for traditional spelling. If you like it because of Irish heritage, then the spelling matters!

DuchessOfSausage · 21/05/2023 11:41

@CurlewKate , because they are portuguese.

CurlewKate · 21/05/2023 11:40

"TBH I’m not sure about Neve - I think people would mispronounce it Nev to rhyme with Bev."

Why would they not pronounce it Neve to rhyme with Eve?

DuchessOfSausage · 21/05/2023 11:39

@ColadhSamh , Welsh names get the 'Pronounce it the anglicised way' a lot on here, whereas Irish names get the 'Spell it the anglicized way'. I find both to be culturally insensitive.

anothername2d · 21/05/2023 11:39

Spell it correctly and she can just explain. Lovely name 😃

Expo23 · 21/05/2023 11:37

Just spell it Niamh. My Irish name is said and spelt wrong 95% of the time. It never bothers me. I understand it is difficult if you don't know that name. Every so often someone gets it right and that makes me smile and they often tell me how they know the name.

For reservations I tend to make them under the name of someone else in the party for ease, or use my surname when appropriate.
I preempt people with the pronunciation and spelling and just leave them to it if it's a coffee order or something inconsequential. I like seeing my 'temporary' name on the Starbucks cup.
There are ways round it for your daughter if people get it wrong. It can teach her early on about self advocacy too.

NuffSaidSam · 21/05/2023 11:32

I'd stick with the traditional spelling and either use it as middle name or give her a Portuguese middle name so that she has the option to use that if Niamh becomes too much of a hassle when she's older.

It'll be your problem for at least the first five years of her life anyway because you'll be making her doctors appointments and restaurant reservations, so you can guage the reaction and switch to her middle name if it's a nightmare.

I think partly it depends on personality. I think some people like having a name that's a talking point and enjoy explaining their family heritage etc. Other people can't be bothered with the attention/fuss it causes and just want a name that isn't going to attract attention. She might love it, she might hate it.

She might choose to be Nive down the line.

ColadhSamh · 21/05/2023 11:27

Was referring to forename. It is all too regular a topic here with reference to Irish forenames haven't seen it in relation to other cultures. Must have missed them 😀

HRSC · 21/05/2023 11:24

Thanks for your reply!

In Portuguese, snow is ‘neve’ but pronounced with a short ‘e’ and you don’t pronounce the last ‘e’. Although I see what your saying about reading it… For it to be fully pronounceable in Portuguese it would have to be Nive (which I don’t really like...!)

To be honest I prefer the traditional spelling but just woke up in the middle of the night thinking about this. So I thought I’d see what other people’s opinions are and as we’re not sharing the name with our friends and family this seems a good place to gauge opinions !

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