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Spelling of an Irish name

135 replies

HRSC · 21/05/2023 10:54

I am due to have my first baby (girl) in August. My husband is Irish and I am British and we live in Portugal (which is where I grew up and where the majority of my family lives).

We have decided to give the baby an Irish name and now we are discussing the spelling of the name. The name we’ve chosen in Niamh which is easy to say in Portuguese but is going to be minefield for anyone to try and read (or spell!).

Do we stick with the traditional Irish spelling and she has an issue whenever anyone tries to read or spell her name or do we go for a different spelling which can be read much more easily by non English speaking people? (Like Neve or Nieve etc)

We are not likely to ever move to Ireland, most likely we will stay in Portugal so this will be something that she will have to deal with for her whole life.

What are your opinions on this? My husband and I can’t decide.

*I have a name that Portuguese people struggle to read and it is a pain when I’m booking a restaurant or at at doctors appointments etc so I often just give my middle name which is more translatable when booking restaurants etc)

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DuchessOfSausage · 21/05/2023 17:42

@AncientBallerina , Niamh Sorcha Seonadh Saoirse
I'm not Irish, and I'd say Nee'v, Sorkha , Shauna, See'rsha.
Quick search says Niamh correct, Sorcha sort of like Sarah but with a short ukh after the r, didn't find Seonadh, and Saoirse correct

DuchessOfSausage · 21/05/2023 17:35

@AncientBallerina , a decent stab doesn't mean they'll get it right.
I don't know how to say Caitriona - my stab at it would be Kate-ree-ona based on Caitlin is said as Kate-Lyn by all the parents-of-Caitlin/Katelyn I know, and the scottish Catriona I know is Kat-ree-ona.

A quick search says it's Kat-REE-uh-na.

DuchessOfSausage · 21/05/2023 17:23

@DownNative , Niamh, Neve, Naeve - all amounts to the same name, pronunciation and meaning. Not something for anyone to get bent out of shape over.
They don't though. The name is Niamh, and the pronunciation is Nee-uv (very short u in uv).
I'd say Neve as Neev and Naeve as Nayv.

In Hong Kong, the surname comes first, so Bruce Lee would have been Li Jun-fan or Lee Jun Fon, assuming the link is genuine. Bruce Lee – anniversary of his birth – 27 November 1940 | Chinese Exclusion Act Case Files (chineseexclusionfiles.com)

Bruce Lee Birth Certificate

Bruce Lee – anniversary of his birth – 27 November 1940

[The complete file (31 pages) for Bruce Lee is at National Archives at San Francisco and is available at Bruce Lee (Lee Jun Fon) was born on 27 November 1940 in San Francisco, California. In order …

https://chineseexclusionfiles.com/2017/11/27/bruce-lee-anniversary-of-his-birth-27-november-1940/

Teawaster · 21/05/2023 17:22

I wouldn't even think that Neve or Nieve was an anglicised version of Niamh. It's just all wrong to spell Niamh in that way.

Piggywaspushed · 21/05/2023 17:12

I had an Irish friend whose parents spelled it Katrina...

I have heard so many people say Catreeona which hurts my ears.

AncientBallerina · 21/05/2023 17:05

Piggywaspushed · 21/05/2023 16:17

I'm amused by the person upthread musing that Caitriona is more likely to be pronounced correctly!

Obviously never heard an English person mangle that one!

Yeah maybe but it’s close to names like Caterina etc, so people can make a decent stab at it while Niamh Sorcha Seonadh Saoirse etc are unfathomable if you’re not Irish, which I am.

Liv999 · 21/05/2023 16:58

Either stick to the original spelling or choose another name, you will butcher it otherwise as there is no v in the irish language

cunningartificer · 21/05/2023 16:49

Niamh is no longer such an unusual name that people in Portugal will find it impossible to remember... people nowadays are much more cosmopolitan. In your community family friends and school will all get it quickly. Name her something you love, and don't feel you have to compromise for imaginary future acquaintances.

I have an unusual name and my parents gave me an 'easy' first name but called me by my second name so I could change it readily. Actually it was never a problem and most people don't even know I have another name. Much more of a pain was having to explain that my first name on the school register, NHS appointment, passport etc wasn't actually what I thought of as my name!

With the variety of spellings for even traditional names, there are relatively few names these days that people invariably get right!

CurlewKate · 21/05/2023 16:28

But she will be "telling people once" for the rest of her life. It's such a pain in the neck. As I said, I did it til I was 40..then gave up.

elvislives2012 · 21/05/2023 16:19

My husband is Irish and we have a Niamh. It's been fine. People only need to be told once and it's no big deal. Stick to the proper way of spelling!

Piggywaspushed · 21/05/2023 16:17

I'm amused by the person upthread musing that Caitriona is more likely to be pronounced correctly!

Obviously never heard an English person mangle that one!

SunnyFog · 21/05/2023 16:09

I would go with the spelling that works best in Portugal, for the pronunciation you love.
If Nia sounds good and is usable, that's what I might choose, but I do read the word "niamh" like "nia".

droghedalady · 21/05/2023 15:49

Just use the normal spelling. It annoys me when people say to me 'just call me x because you won't be able to pronounce my real name'. It's patronising. Some English names are difficult too - took me a minute to get the hang of 'St John' when I met one, but I was able to do it.

Countrygirl38 · 21/05/2023 14:11

Personally I would use the Irish spelling. My daughter has an Irish name and we live in the UK. Barely anyone we meet can spell or pronounce her name without asking but she doesn't mind. It's a beautiful name.

DownNative · 21/05/2023 14:11

DuchessOfSausage · 21/05/2023 13:45

@DownNative , have you seen his birth certificate? Not that I give a shit.

I know some people from SE Asia who use an english-sounding name instead of a chinese or korean one, and you might see nothing wrong with it, but that is their decision. I can't say I agree with it, but it's their decision.

Of course as it's online. Bruce Lee (Jun Fan Lee), so his name was Bruce Jun Fan Lee.

People change their names for all kinds of reasons, including they simply don't like the name their parents gave them. Its one of those things that's neither right nor wrong - it just is.

Niamh, Neve, Naeve - all amounts to the same name, pronunciation and meaning. Not something for anyone to get bent out of shape over.

And OP should just pick whatever she thinks would be easiest. They never know, the child that grows up to become an adult might well change it to something else entirely! It happens.

mumtohatty · 21/05/2023 14:08

Niamh is a beautiful Irish name, please don't butcher it by spelling it wrong! What about Erin or Orla? Both lovely Irish names and easy to pronounce

DuchessOfSausage · 21/05/2023 14:07

I gave up much sooner. I was flogging a dead horse.

CurlewKate · 21/05/2023 13:52

@DuchessOfSausage "I agree. I usually ask, and I can tell that they are fed up with being asked"

I was 40 when I gave up . I did try never to look fed up though!

SilentParrot · 21/05/2023 13:46

Will she be given her father's surname and is it an Irish surname? If yes, then I'd scrap Niamh and find something else entirely. Something to represent her British heritage?

DuchessOfSausage · 21/05/2023 13:45

@DownNative , have you seen his birth certificate? Not that I give a shit.

I know some people from SE Asia who use an english-sounding name instead of a chinese or korean one, and you might see nothing wrong with it, but that is their decision. I can't say I agree with it, but it's their decision.

BadNomad · 21/05/2023 13:42

If you're going to use the name, spell it the correct/traditional way, then give her an easier middle name to use when she's older like you do.

DuchessOfSausage · 21/05/2023 13:39

CurlewKate · 21/05/2023 13:22

"Don't butcher a traditional name by spelling it Neve because some people are ignorant or lazy."

It's not ignorant or lazy to not know how to spell or pronounce something. Obviously, they just have to ask. But imagine being asked, every day for the rest of your life...

I agree. I usually ask, and I can tell that they are fed up with being asked.
They seem to always apologise for having a silly name, when their name is lovely,

DownNative · 21/05/2023 13:38

DuchessOfSausage · 21/05/2023 13:24

@DownNative , Bruce Lee doesn't countt, because it was a stage name. Lots of actors use stage names (David Tennant, Marilyn Monroe, etc)

I have worked with people who call themselves names like Les, Peter, Katie etc instead of Leszek, Piotr, Ekaterina but they chose to do that to their own name, and they probably did it because their names were mispronounced.

Of course, it counts - Li was anglicised to Lee for Western audiences, but his birth certificate states "Bruce Lee". This isn't the same thing as Norma Jean changing to Marilyn Monroe which was a stage name. 🤦‍♂️

But it's true that people from other cultures do and have anglicised their names. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. Some previously asserted that this doesn't happen.

Some do it to save explaining pronunciation, others because it's often mispelled and others do it to blend in with the place they've moved to. It's neither wrong or right - it just is.

Spidey66 · 21/05/2023 13:38

Niamh is a lovely name. I'm with the "spell it correctly or use a other name" camp. (Second generation Irish, for context).

DuchessOfSausage · 21/05/2023 13:34

@briansgardenshed , but again, it's someone adapting their own name, not their child's.

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