Spelling of an Irish name

Where did I say a spelling of "Neeuv" is a variation?

I'll wait on that one too....

I note you’ve failed to produce a single authority on how Niamh should be pronounced. Thought so.

Hmm...."Anti-Irish" you say. Its bizarre bordering on the hysterical that you state it's somehow "Anti-Irish" to point out that Niamh, Neve and Naeve are all acceptable spellings in addition to pronunciation of "Neev" and "Nee-av".

Wikipedia, Niamh Ní Hoireabhaird and Irish Central must all be Anti-Irish somehow too! 🤦‍♂️

FYI, Irish Central has Irish writers too and has had Northern Irish writers also on occasion.

@DownNative
I agree with the pp who said that the Neev pronunciation is widely used in Ireland and is accepted as a pronunciation, but that it's not actually correct in the Irish language (while Nee-uv is).
The journalist you quote also uses the words 'perfectly acceptable', rather than 'correct'.
You will see too that the Wikipedia article you quote gives pronunciations for the name both in English and Irish - notably two pronunciations are given in English and only one in Irish. There are lots of anglicised pronunciations of names in Ireland so this is in no way unusual, the only thing is to be aware of it.

I do understand why OP wants to make her daughter's life easier though. Ultimately the decision on spelling is completely up to her and her DH. But it's as well to know the full background to a name and how it's generally perceived and pronounced and spelt in it's country of origin, I think. Helps in making an informed decision.

I don't speak Portuguese, but I'm not sure that either Neve or Nieve would intuitively be pronounced as Nee-uv or Neev by a Portuguese person? You have the superior knowledge there OP (I'm relying on google😅), but if the sounds don't match then you're moving even further away from the original name.

Another option is to choose an Irish name that might be more easily pronounced in Portugal. Would something like Fia work in Portuguese at all? But ultimately the decision is yours of course. And congratulations too!

A parent can choose to spell their child's name any way they see fit, but once you spell Niamh as Neeuv, (or Aoife as Eefa, or Oisín as Uhsheen) it's then a different name, an ‘inspired by…’ name.

You clearly know nothing of the Irish language so why are you trying to assert yourself as some kind of authority. Your anti Irish obsession is so odd.

Then you get people like you being highly selective by ignoring other sources including Niamh Ní Hoireabhaird who is Irish!

So....let's see your single recognised authority that states a name can only be said or spelt in ONE set way.

I'll wait.....

It’s like saying that Brian is pronounced Brine.

Exactly.

And then you get people who don't even speak Irish loftily offering the American website Irish Central as their source.

That's a poor comparison - Miguel to Migwell. That would be an entirely different name.

Miguel is the Spanish version of the Hebrew name Mikha'el. The English name Michael and the Gaelic Mícheál are further variations of the same original Hebrew name.

Niamh, Neve and Naeve are all variations of the root name, but they don't cease to be Gaelic based names due to different spelling. It's simply personal preference as to which one is chosen.

Migwell is obviously not a variation of Miguel, but Michael is.

Language purists often do more harm to minority languages than they benefit them by arguing about their spelling and pronunciation as @AncientBallerina is suggesting. The most successful languages tend not to be so stuck in one particular way because the world is constantly changing.

A language must keep up with that or disappear.

It's not pronunciation as much, it's changing the spelling which in turn makes it meaningless.

Hopefully this discussion has made some more aware of why the language is important to so many Irish people. We nearly lost it once through terrorising our people let's not allow it change through arrogance and a sense of entitlement.

Or this

That's a fairly common widely used Irish name. It's not like Caoimhe which is less familiar. Which fewer non-Irish people know or can pronounce or spell.

Of course it can which is precisely what Niamh Ní Hoireabhaird states in her Guardian article.

Fact is that there's no one single authority anyone can point to that states a name can only be pronounced in one specific way. And that there will always be variations on names.

Names even die out in time too and not just Gaelic based names as English based names also die out. That's just life.

Names can be born, evolve, change and die out. Simple as that. So people should just pick whatever name and/or variations they prefer and stick with that.

It's no big deal, really. Culture and language are never static but very dynamic and malleable.

I would normally say stick to the traditional spelling however have recently met a little girl through my work called Neve and it’s so much easier for her to spell out and write her name,

I am Irish and I have a great love for the language - went to a Gaelscoil in the 70s. I am familiar with the Penal Laws. I’m a huge fan of Manchán Magan and the fascinating work he is doing. That’s how you keep the language alive, not haggling over the pronunciation of names.

It will no longer be Irish if you change the spelling.

That's like changing the name Miguel to Migwell and claiming it's still Spanish.

Niamh is gorgeous ❤️

We can always start with Wikipedia and Irish Central as examples. And we can bring in the Irish journalist Niamh Ní Hoireabhaird who wrote on this issue in the Guardian two months ago.

There are others, but no need to provide an exhaustive list. The point remains that there is no single central authority whatsoever you could point to that states only one specific version is completely correct.

Names change and evolve down the years in the short, medium and long terms.

Keep it original. It's a beautiful name

@ColadhSamh , thanks.

Exactly this. The arrogance of some and the dismissal of those trying to preserve the Irish language is not nice to read. Sad to have to give a little history lesson in a topic on baby names.

Did you know that the speaking of the Irish language was banned by the British in ireland first of all in the Irish parliament and then in areas where the British ruled? The language was almost wiped out. The punishment for speaking Irish was jail time and beatings. Please have some respect for Irish language and culture. No problem with people using names but please respect the language.

There are different dialects across Ireland hence some variations in pronunciation across the different provinces. Nothing sinister about it and understood by all who speak the language.

@Kokeshi123 , I'm pretty sure they do. Caitlin and 'variations' was very popular about 20 years ago, and I know (the parents of) several.

I'm pretty sure nobody says "her name is Katelynn, it's Irish" because I don't think anyone actually thinks of it as an Irish name; it's generally thought of as just one of the "lynn/lin/lyn/leine" names, like Madeleine, Carolyn, Marilyn etc! I think it's time to face the fact that this is not an Irish name these days.

OP, are you going to give this child your husband's surname? Most bicultural families I know tend to try and balance the two cultures with one being reflected in the surname and the other being favored in the given name. I think Niamh Irishsurname risks sounding like overkill in a child who has two cultures and is growing up in Portugal. If your husband's surname is likely to be pronounced without too many errors in Portugal, I'd go for that, and then pick a first name that is primarily about your British and Portuguese sides. I think Niamh would be a lovely middle name.

@AncientBallerina , Honestly you all need to lighten up and stop being so professionally offended about pronunciation of Irish names.

Look at the history of how the irish were treated, and how their language was treated before making such accusations. Same goes for the scottish and the welsh.

Using a name but modifying the spelling and/or pronunciation offends us for a reason - it's offensive.

Names get modified, for example, Niamh tends to be said as Neev now. It's not evolving a name, it's changing it. Take Caitlin - you'd probably struggle now to not get the Katelyn pronunciation.

I just can't get my head around why someone would take a name from another language/culture, mispronounce or misspell it but say something like 'her name is Katelynn, it's irish'. It's not and it's naff.

I have a Neve. We’re not Irish and similarly have non-English speaking family and weren’t keen on Niamh. Not ever had any issues with spelling or pronunciation.

I worked with a Niamh in France and everyone even after correcting called Nee-am. So I’m not sure people will quickly pick it up like others say. It will likely be an issue but some handle it better than others

Hey OP. I was very much in the same position as you. I have an Irish husband, live in a foreign country and love the name Niamh but spelling/pronunciation would be an issue. I saw all the mumsnet posts that were very anti Neve spelling but in the end we decided that it would make our baby's life much easier to spell it that way. I don't always think UK posters understand how unfamiliar the rest of the world is with Irish names. My husband was more for the Neve spelling than I was actually as he has seen how many of his friends with Irish names had difficulty in Australia with spelling and pronunciation. Anyway, my baby is now 2 and I don't regret spelling it the Neve way at all. It would be nice if Niamh was more well known here but it just isn't. Oh and for the record, there are two ways of saying Neve. My husband and all of his family (Galway) say Niamh as one syllable (N-eve).

Stick with the Irish spelling or what is the point in having the Irish name which is lovely. Another lovely Irish name do not hear so much of now is Aisling. People will ask about her name and the spelling but that does not have to be a negative thing and in school etc am sure lots of others with names that are not familiar and people will pick it up easy. Do not change the spelling of Niamh.

Just give her an easier middle name and she can use that for minor daily things like making restaurant reservations.

I really don't recommend deciding her names on this kind of basis; being known by one name "sometimes" and a completely different name "sometimes" is the sort of thing that ends in administrative chaos (like turning up at the airport and realizing that your company has booked your airline ticket in the wrong name etc. etc.).