DD hates her name and surname

One last thing - I wasn't defending marriage above - I am in a long term deliberately unmarried relationship.

I was making the point that your outrage seems very selective. If you want to object to my even mentioning name changes, why not just object wholesale to anyone mentioning marriage at all? It was literally created as, and has continued as, a gender unequal union. Again, selective outrage.

@BloodAndFire I think you're just trying really hard to be difficult tbh! And succeeding!

Like this accusation coming from nowhere which completely boggles my mind: "Funny how it's always the man's surname which is more aesthetically pleasing, isn't it?"

I literally mentioned a Mr Hardcock and a Mr Assman, plus said: "In fact, if you don't go double barrelled or keep your own surname, maybe the man and woman can pick the one they like best out of the 2." I also said hopefully: "And maybe in time this option will be open to men too!"

Other posters have mentioned (male) people being hesitant to jettison their adoptive family name due to fears of hurting them, so it's obviously a real dilemma.

We clearly just have different personalities/cultural ideals, so I don't think you have to keep trying to frame me as some dyed in the wool misogynist, possibly also because of stereotypes you have about people from other cultures (interestingly, you're not engaging other posters on this thread acknowledging the social and other difficulties of name changes).

I don't care if a man or woman wants to go scorched earth, change their name loud and proud and unprompted, have to try to repair family's hurt feelings, have to explain themselves repeatedly to all and sundry socially + professionally/while networking (especially if established in your career under old name), have to justify themselves officially in paperwork + interviews (and for me as someone globally mobile, the name change history might look suspicious on + slow down visa applications), and so on.

That is totally valid and great. And for women who have been socialised into niceness, doubly great. But great for men too – not many men with surnames they hate are able to do that either.

For me though, whether I were a man or woman, I would just prefer a more natural transition if possible. As I've said, it would be great if men could subtly change their name through marriage. The current practice in Britain is that women change their surnames, which is why I referenced that. And - surprise surprise, OP's daughter is a woman, as far as we know. It's not a recommendation. It was a casual observation of options available to her, if she somehow gets to that point without having taken action on the particular matter of her surname.

You're so adamant that she must keep her own (family or newly chosen) surname upon marriage, but that's entirely her choice. Just as it is her choice to get married if she wants to, rather than not buy in to the misogynistic institution of marriage.

Yes, marriage doesn't have to be fundamentally misogynistic if some elements are improved. Neither does a marriage name change. As I've mentioned before, I think it would be a nice idea for the "women takes surname" tradition to evolve with a married couple picking 1 name between them, whether out of their existing family names, or a newly and mutually created one.

Oh and fwiw, I am not a fan of white dresses, being 'given away', wedding rings or any other patriarchal trappings of marriage

Great, go troll other wedding threads then, instead of creatively inventing things I haven't said.

I have no doubt you'll find a way to twist what I've written so let's not engage further!

No. We are not 'on the same page' even a little bit.

Not in a million years would I be recommending that women should 'go along with the misogyny' because it's 'expedient' or to 'be kind'.

I also had a friend at university who strongly disliked her surname and hated her parents. She changed her name shortly after graduation and has been going by her new name for 20+ years with no issues. She's getting married this year - good thing she didn't wait or she'd have spent 2 more decades with her horrible name.

Funny how it's always the man's surname which is more aesthetically pleasing, isn't it?

Oh and fwiw, I am not a fan of white dresses, being 'given away', wedding rings or any other patriarchal trappings of marriage.

But isn’t the point that her name is (at the OP’s admission) more like Maya Smith?

if it’s after a product people will see the link instantly. People aren’t daft.

People really don’t bat an eyelid. It’s far more common than people realise.

it’s less common for a man to change their surname which may be why he occasionally gets a raised eyebrow.

It has made no difference to me in regards to job searching at all.

To be fair, I’ve always worked in financial services, so that’s maybe why I’ve known so many problems with name changes (as it’s an obvious red flag for fraud). Fully accept it could be different in other sectors.

Also if the name is obviously the issue they don’t even ask because they can see why “Starlight Surname” changed her name…

But isn’t the point that her name is (at the OP’s admission) more like Maya Smith? I completely agree that it would be obvious why someone changed from Starlight/Cinderella/Zowie Smith to Sarah Smith. But Maya Smith to something completely different? Why? (My friend’s brother changed his surname to his mum’s maiden name after he briefly shared the same name with a famous England footballer. This raises eyebrows now that nobody under the age of 45 now knows who said footballer was! It’s accepted without too much question as it was his mum’s name, although people assume some sort of messy parental divorce, which is very far from the truth!)

Mid 40s. I hate my name. I have no middle name. I hate the abbreviated version of my name more than my actual name. And I hate my surname too, although didn’t change it when I got married as I was known professionally by it. It rhymes with smelly and Willy….you can imagine primary school. I used to write a different name on my books! No one ever picks it up when I say it on the phone. I usually have to spell it. There is no unusual spelling. In 2019 not a single baby in the uk was called it…..although 5 baby boys got the same name as my non British husband.
Tell your lovely daughter she has all my sympathy, but she shouldn’t let this eat her up. She can change it- I know someone who did- or just learn to live with it. I have a slightly different name on SM and some people think I’m actually called that- and its suitably similar (just a bit more glamorous) that I answer to it.

My name is 'out there', I've never met anyone with the same surname as I've changed mine to. It has made no difference to me in regards to job searching at all.

It really doesn’t make a big impact.

You put it on official forms. Occasionally when changing jobs HR ask, but they’ve generally dealt with it before.

Also if the name is obviously the issue they don’t even ask because they can see why “Starlight Surname” changed her name…

Exactly... If it's a normal but uncommon name then it presumably people will associate it with the very famous singer or product.

I can't for the life of me think of a very famous American singer with the same name as a product, but Cher would fall into the category of a normal but uncommon name. It's a perfectly nice name, but most people would associate it with the singer, so I can understand why someone would dislike being called it.

It's also easier to change name starting college/uni/work than any other point in time.

True - but still doesn’t make it without consequence. As I said upthread, it’s now de rigeur to conduct detailed searches when you apply for almost any job. And a name change does ring alarm bells and is flagged. If your name was Myra Hindley and you changed it to Margaret Hindley? Most people would “get it”. I used to work with a lady who changed her surname at university to her mum’s name after her parents went through an acrimonious divorce. That came up in a search when she first joined, but could be explained and understood. But if your name was Maya Smith and you’ve changed it to Charlotte Lucas, then I don’t think people wouldn’t just think “oh, okay”, but would probably assume that you had something to hide in your/your family’s past or that there was some sort of fraud going on. Because, even though you can do it legally, people just don’t. How many times do you meet someone who says “oh, God, no one calls me Terence (or whatever), it’s Tel/TJ/Smithy”. People who don’t like their names generally muddle along with a nickname or abbreviation. So to change a perfectly normal name would raise questions for this girl in later life.

Have you told her she is named after a product?

I know two people whose names are inspired by a product, and while they look like normal names, they hate that their parents named them after a product.

This isn't an AIBU.

Is her name Celine?

If it is, it's quite an unusual name for a 15 year old, and would be associated with Celine Dion probably (although I think she's Canadian not American, so maybe not).

I know the name doesn't really matter, but if everyone keeps singing 'my heart will go on' at her with arms outstretched a la Kate Winslet and Leonardo DiCaprio, I can see that would get rather irritating over time 😬

What does it matter what the name is? And it meets the MN approval or not. The girl doesn't like it.

Logically mum either supports her change it and helps her pick something sensible, possibly having a trial run in school as known as or its likely to become a battle between mum and DD

It's also easier to change name starting college/uni/work than any other point in time.

Has the OP told us what the bloody name is yet?

So - if her name is Mary or Susan, they’re perfectly normal names and ones that she might like better as an older woman. So I’d probably encourage her to try a nickname or to feel more positively about it. If her name is Cinderella? Very different kettle of fish.

This is what I was trying to say earlier, but you've articulated much more concisely!

@BloodAndFire forgot to add: apart from being a palaver + embarrassment, an unprompted name change might hurt those close to you - see man above in thread who didn't want to hurt his adoptive family. Others may not want to be seen by family as "rejecting" their own heritage.

It's all very well talking about individual expression etc but to me kindness and ties are also factors to consider. If subtle marriage name change provides that as a win win I don't see why not. And maybe in time this option will be open to men too!

I think if you stop to read my posts, you'll see that we're on the same page! I did say not to mention it to her, that would be a ridiculous thing to say to a young woman.

If she really hates her name, by no means does she have to wait around for marriage – whether to a man or woman – to change that.

But we're all adults on this forum and we can acknowledge that oftentimes misogynistic practices are societally expedient. People on MN get married to a man all the time despite the fact that marriage is itself an archaic, often gender unequal institution that for example many in the Nordic cultures no longer practice. Or – I've never seen anyone unsolicitedly dissuade anyone else on this forum from wearing a white wedding dress despite the origins of this western practice being slut shaming. Is it "depressing" to mention weddings and wedding dresses on MN?

I've known a few unfortunate surnames. A Hardcock I knew my uni hated her surname. Later on she became a - I can't remember, but something generic like Brown through marriage. Her brother wouldn't have that option. Neither would a Mr Assman I know who gets mocked a fair bit! (Sidenote: the origins of his surname are quite beautiful, the mocking was ethnocentric so maybe this is not the best example, but he didn't like it anyway)

For most people, it would be a palaver plus possibly embarrassing to change your surname, and have to explain it repeatedly personally and professionally. This is more of a natural transition and you don't have to do a whole song and dance about it. Plus you don't have to brainstorm a new emotionally significant surname either, if you're the kind short on inspiration.

Of course 1) some are more confident and thick skinned than others, by all means go for it! 2) I'm not saying anyone should get married just TO change their surname, that's a determined misreading of it 🙄 I'm sure the main thing was that ms hardcock loved her husband. It's just a convenient 2 in 1 if you want.

Less extremely, I've also heard a few British women say they low key prefer their marriage surname (on an aesthetic basis). In fact, if you don't go double barrelled or keep your own surname, maybe the man and woman can pick the one they like best out of the 2.

To be very honest, I think maybe you're just trying to be a bit difficult about a throwaway comment? As I've said before, in East Asian culture we don't take a husband's name, so obviously I personally don't subscribe to the practice.

LOL!

I don’t think the names are relevant, it’s the fact she hates them. What does it matter to us if her name is Mary, Susan, Maria or Cinderella?

While changing your name by deed poll is perfectly possible legally, it is something that you’ll carry for life. Lots of forms require “other names used” to be declared and, from knowing someone who did this, it raises questions as to why. In his case, working in financial services, there was always a suggestion of fraud somewhere. Because it’s a really unusual thing to do. And - as a pp has said - what you think would be a “cool” name at 15 isn’t necessarily what you’ll like at 50. So - if her name is Mary or Susan, they’re perfectly normal names and ones that she might like better as an older woman. So I’d probably encourage her to try a nickname or to feel more positively about it. If her name is Cinderella? Very different kettle of fish.

Oh! Cilit Bang?

Daz?

I don’t think the names are relevant, it’s the fact she hates them. What does it matter to us if her name is Mary, Susan, Maria or Cinderella?

Bazookathatveruca ?