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Original poster

Cultural appropriation or not? Middle name

128 replies

FoilWrappedBiscuit · 15/08/2022 23:13

We wanted to give our new baby my gran's name as a middle name.

My gran's real name is a traditional English name. Think Doris.

But since she was a teenager, everyone has known her as another name, one that is very obviously from another culture. Let's say Parvati. Everyone knows her as Parvati, her husband, her children, everyone - and has done for 70+ years.

Now I knew she got the name Parvati from a film, because she loved the character and thought she was beautiful, and hated her real name. But I only found out recently that the character in the film was portrayed by a white actor using brownface.

This is making me hesitate. The name itself is so bound up with my gran that I'd sort of glossed over my misgivings about giving an English girl an Indian middle name, but this backstory makes me a bit uncomfortable on my daughter's behalf. I'm imagining her growing up, having to explain her middle name... "I'm named after my great gran. No, she wasn't Indian, she just saw a character in brownface and stole the name"... It's not good, is it?? But I want to honour my gran. I've thought about just going for "Doris" but since nobody has called her that name for over 70 years it seems totally pointless. Wwyd??

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BigFatLiar · 16/08/2022 11:28

Just use the name if you want. Don't worry about cultural appropriation, one of our friends is of Indian descent and gets called Tom, nobody cares. Its all about labelling and putting people in little boxes.

ancientgran · 16/08/2022 11:28

etulosba · 16/08/2022 10:20

I thought Maria came from Mariam/Maryam which is how Mary the Mother of Jesus is named in the Quran.

It’s probably safe to assume that you are not convent educated.

I am actually. Of course the nuns understood that in first century Palestine the Holy Family weren't actually called Jesus, Mary and Joseph. They would have been Yeshua, Mariam and probably Yosef.

Mary became the name we use for Mary, Mariam is the Arabic/Muslim version of her name and is likely to be the route of Maria, lots of crossover with Spain and the Muslim world which is probably how it became popular in Spain.

I guess the Quran got Mariam from the same Aramaic roots.

liveforsummer · 16/08/2022 11:24

Will anyone in 20 years time have any idea about the film and the character? I doubt it. You don't need to tell dd anything more than the relation of the name to her gran. The rest isn't relevant to her

DancingUnderTheLights · 16/08/2022 11:20

I definitely wouldn't use Doris. You sound uncomfortable about using the Indian name OP. I wouldn't call my daughter that if you were going to go on about brown face and racism etc. Who wants that attached to their name? I think it's fine to use it but just have the positive associations with your gran.

Wheresmymoneytree · 16/08/2022 11:17

veniceorna · 16/08/2022 09:14

I'm Hispanic and I'd find it quite disrespectful if a English white person used 'Maria'

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Maria has been a name used for years? Why is it disrespectful?

There was a white girl in my class growing up called Maria and theres at least one in the school I teach in!

FlorettaB · 16/08/2022 11:16

Girls names in England and Wales by popularity

Maria

1904 - 80th
1914 - 90th
1924 - 66th
1934 - 59th
1944 - 57th
1954 - 42nd
1964 - 30th
1974 - 44th
1984 - 78th
1994 - 92nd
2004 - 113th
2014 - 73rd
2020 - 70th

NC12345665 · 16/08/2022 11:16

veniceorna · 16/08/2022 09:14

I'm Hispanic and I'd find it quite disrespectful if a English white person used 'Maria'

Show quote history

Is this satire? I don't even know any more.

theclangersarecoming · 16/08/2022 11:13

Maria was particularly popular in the eighteenth century in England (as was Marie in the fifties / sixties).

AppleBottomRats · 16/08/2022 11:10

Maria is also used in other white/non Hispanic countries. For example, Marie Antoinette was actually born Maria Antonia - she was Austrian and her mother and 10 sisters were also called Maria!

scarletisjustred · 16/08/2022 11:10

People appropriate names from my culture all the time. Most of the time, I think why don't they want to reflect their own culture, not mine. In your circumstances, I think I'd just use the name and say your grandmother just chose an exotic name rather than Doris.

Or you could just chose the more attractive Dora?

Deadringer · 16/08/2022 11:07

Maria is of Latin origin and is popular in Spanish speaking communities but its also popular in other places where the language is derived from Latin, one of which is England.

theclangersarecoming · 16/08/2022 11:07

@veniceorna Maria and Marie were historically very common variants of Mary, in use all across Catholic (and later Protestant as well) Europe. Where do you think Hispanic culture got it from 😂

CaptainMyCaptain · 16/08/2022 11:04

Maria is a perfectly common name used in Britain and was quite popular in the 60s when I was at school.

SheeWeee · 16/08/2022 11:03

veniceorna · 16/08/2022 10:50

*Mary, not Maria!

No, Maria is correct. It's a normal English name for a very very long time, and there is nothing particularly "hispanic" about it.

mogwa · 16/08/2022 10:59

@veniceorna Here's just one example from history: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Branwell

Do you live in the UK/Europe? Because I would be shocked if you've genuinely never encountered this name on a white woman

antelopevalley · 16/08/2022 10:59

Cultural appropriation is not bollocks. But middle names can be whatever we want. No one uses them. So for passing on family stuff they are ideal.

ChiefWiggumsBoy · 16/08/2022 10:58

I would use the name she called herself and not Doris. Why bother using a name she hated and never used? All your child is going to know (or share) is that her middle name is that of her grandmother.

Hiphophippityskip1 · 16/08/2022 10:55

Its the name used by your grandmother who you loved. Its origins are irrelevant. Cultural appropriation is bollocks. You are chosing the name because you like the name end and are passing on the fond memories of your gran. No different to if her name was anything else.

Bunda · 16/08/2022 10:55

ClumpingBambooIsALie · 16/08/2022 10:39

By being an entirely different name?

Show quote history

You can still honour something without it being the same. You sound like a barrel of laughs.

ofwarren · 16/08/2022 10:54

SemperIdem · 16/08/2022 10:45

@ofwarren

Why would it be Cleopatra?

Cleopatra was Greek Macedonian, not black.

Because its the one that gets the most complaint about online, especially when Gal Gadot played her. Plus, the OP said brown, not black.
I don't care either way to be honest.
www.theguardian.com/film/2020/oct/14/gal-gadot-cleopatra-backwards-step-for-hollywood-representation

antelopevalley · 16/08/2022 10:53

Middle names can be anything. Most people never use them, so I would not hesitate to use it. I would also say it was the name your gran used because she loved the name and did not like the name Doris.

veniceorna · 16/08/2022 10:50

*Mary, not Maria!

veniceorna · 16/08/2022 10:49

Then you're just looking for offence.
White English people have been called Maria for hundreds of years. It's a perfectly usual name for a white English person.

The name I think you're looking for is Maria

SheeWeee · 16/08/2022 10:48

veniceorna · 16/08/2022 09:14

I'm Hispanic and I'd find it quite disrespectful if a English white person used 'Maria'

Show quote history

A joke, surely? Please tell me this is a joke?