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Original poster

Anglicisations of Irish names

96 replies

Snowbell99 · 10/03/2022 20:51

I am just curious. What are your thoughts on anglicisations? Do you love them because they make things easier? Hate them because they ruin the beautiful original? Indifferent? Depends on the name?

I love many Irish names and this is just something I think about every once in a while. I am curious to hear your opinions.

I know several people named Shaun, Ailish, Eavan, Ashling and Neve. I feel like spellings such as these are being used less and less often. I also feel like people care more about fadas and using them properly.

A friend was thinking about Seersha for a while but people online got really upset because they found it inacceptable that she "butchered" the spelling. I personally much prefer Saoirse as well but I don't hate Seersha.

Also, do you think the acceptance of anglicisations has declined over the years? I sort of feel like this is the case. Anglicisations used to be more common from my experience, even in Ireland. But now the originals seem to be used more often, even more complicated names. I am wondering if this has something to do with the internet and people being able to look things up more easily. In the 90s you might have heard a more unusual Irish name and it would have been harder to figure out what the original was.

For me it really depends on the name. I am so used to Kiera and Keira for Ciara that they look perfectly fine to me. To be honest, the first time I saw Ailish it looked pretty bad to me and I find Ailis much prettier. But I got used to it. Seersha isn't really a favourite either I find Saoirse prettier.

For me personally in many cases I think I'd rather explain myself all my life than have the anglicisation of an Irish name but people might feel differently about this and even my children might and they may not appreciate being named Éadaoin or whatever I end up choosing. But I am curious to hear what you think. You can also name examples.

Mine:

Kiera - this actually looks nice to me and I would consider it if Keira hadn't been so common and I wouldn't be worried about people mixing them up. I also like Ciara, though.

Ailish - it looks more like an adjective that way and makes me think of "ailing", "fish" and "dish" therefore I really prefer Ailis. I am getting used to it, though.

Keeva and Seersha - I think they look sort of awkward but still okay. But I find Caoimhe and Saoirse much more beautiful.

Aideen - I prefer Éadaoin but Aideen looks fine to me.

Ashling - it doesn't look terrible at all, but I still like Aisling better.

Eavan - I prefer Aoibheann, the spelling is part of the appeal for me personally.

What is the most interesting anglicisation you have seen? What is your favourite? Least favourite?

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MurderAtTheBeautyPageant · 11/03/2022 00:29

With rgds Órla v Orla I would say still not an anglicisation just that the fada has lapsed over time to the point I'd say most Irish Orlas are fada-less.

(even knowing the less than appealing definition of fada-less orla)

MurderAtTheBeautyPageant · 11/03/2022 00:19

The Irish language underwent a spelling reform in the 1940s where they standardised the language by combining the three main dialects and basically removing lots of silent letters from words. So Orfhlaith became Orla. Both are Irish but one is the more modern version. Other names changed too, Seaghán became Seán for eg.

Original poster
Snowbell99 · 11/03/2022 00:18

@HeyGirlHeyBoy

I thought Órla was an alternative Irish spelling, not an anglicisation.
Yes, you might be right.

I think Órflaith is the older Irish spelling and Órlaith and Órla the more modern ones.

The anglicisation is Orla (no fada).

OP posts:
HeyGirlHeyBoy · 10/03/2022 23:50

I thought Órla was an alternative Irish spelling, not an anglicisation.

KirstenBlest · 10/03/2022 23:09

@TerribleCustomerCervix

I have a Sadhbh- never occurred to me to use Sive instead.

I don’t speak Irish, but DH does- it seems a bit disrespectful to choose a non-English name and then not use that language’s spelling.

I like how DD’s name reflects her heritage and that wouldn’t be so profound if we’d anglicised her name.

@TerribleCustomerCervix, I agree but I think it's disrespectful to not use that language's pronunciation.e.g. Niamh said as Neve or Orla said as Aula grates a bit. Don't get me started on welsh names - most of them get mangled.

Sadhbh is nice, Sive looks weird

TerribleCustomerCervix · 10/03/2022 23:01

I have a Sadhbh- never occurred to me to use Sive instead.

I don’t speak Irish, but DH does- it seems a bit disrespectful to choose a non-English name and then not use that language’s spelling.

I like how DD’s name reflects her heritage and that wouldn’t be so profound if we’d anglicised her name.

Original poster
Snowbell99 · 10/03/2022 22:54

@MurderAtTheBeautyPageant

It's actually a misconception that Orla is an anglicisation.
Doesn't it come from ór (gold) and flaith (princess, ruler) = Órflaith?

I always thought it was the anglicisation of Órflaith.

OP posts:
MurderAtTheBeautyPageant · 10/03/2022 22:46

It's actually a misconception that Orla is an anglicisation.

User839516 · 10/03/2022 22:40

I love Clodagh, Bronagh, Meara, Fiadh and Eireann. We have an Orla which should be Orlaith but we were worried people would pronounce it like ‘or-layth’.
I dislike seeing Neve, Eryn, Keeva etc. Seersha looks awful. But I do understand people not wanting their kids to struggle with their name.

foorisajar · 10/03/2022 22:21

@HeyGirlHeyBoy

Munmunadoodoodododo became

Sabadabadoodoodododo

HeyGirlHeyBoy · 10/03/2022 22:13

Ayd-a-mar or more mer at the end. Stress on Ayd.

MurderAtTheBeautyPageant · 10/03/2022 22:10

Aedammair is a new one on me!

HeyGirlHeyBoy · 10/03/2022 22:08

Never heard of it! Too long for me. Lasairfhíona come in for your tea!
I like Aedammair, also a tricky one!

Original poster
Snowbell99 · 10/03/2022 22:08

@foorisajar

I know a Shivon and a Shevaughn. I worked with a woman called Sadhbh. It was a business big enough for people to come across her name but not know or encounter her personally. As no one knew for ages how to pronounce her name they used to sing the muppets theme tune when referring to her.
Sadhbh is extremely cool but I was a bit underwhelmed when I first heard it pronounced. I thought it would have a more unique sound. I still like it, the mythology behind it is so interesting.
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MurderAtTheBeautyPageant · 10/03/2022 22:06

Don't like the way Caoilfhionn looks although really like the sound. So probably wouldn't use it as none of the anglicisations would past muster but the authentic spelling is unappealing to me. My friend has a Lasairfhíona and phew, that's a name that will be consistently misspelled in Ireland never mind beyond its shores.

Original poster
Snowbell99 · 10/03/2022 22:04

@HeyGirlHeyBoy

Ah Scottish, so not Irish then. That sounds right Ailis, to me, would be Alish... V Alice sounding in fact! Generally, as I understood it, Irish names are standalone, not 'versions of'. So people say Sorcha is Irish for Sarah but that's not accurate. Yes they are beautiful names. Do you like Caoilfhionn?
Oh, that's actually a possibility! I know that Sorcha has a completely different meaning in Irish and that it is just seen as the equivalent to Sarah, but they are not related.

As for Ailís (Irish) and Ailis (Scottish) I didn't find any other meanings. But maybe they developed on their own and apart from Alice.

Caoilfhionn is quite beautiful but I dislike how it is sort of close to many trendy names of the 80s and 90s in sound, e.g. Kendra, Kiara, Kelsey, Kelly, Keeley, Kayleigh, Kayla. I mean the sound is not the same but it follows a similar pattern.

I do like Kiera (as well as Ciara KEE-ra) and Kyra (KY-ra) but I sometimes hesitate for the same reason as above. I just feel like they would get lost between all of those similar names.

OP posts:
HeyGirlHeyBoy · 10/03/2022 22:02

Oh absolutely re Irishify!!

Why did they sing the Muppets tune? Confused Love Sadhbh.

Lampface · 10/03/2022 22:02

I'm Welsh / Scottish. Original spellings allll the way! It makes me sad when people change them tbh

MurderAtTheBeautyPageant · 10/03/2022 22:00

I don't think I have a consistent view on Anglicisations. Some, such as Seersha, make me clutch my rosary beads/wine glass in horror. Just awful. Killian I have no problem with, I suppose because it's a well-established spelling. (I remember when St Killian's cheese was launched late 80s/early 90s and it seemed so fancy in a world of Galtee and Calvita!). I actively prefer Eavan to Aoibheann. Maybe because of Eavan Boland. Her poem Quarantine, well it makes me blub.

On the other side of the coin I roll my eyes a bit when people try to Irishify a non-Irish name. Maillí for Molly, things like that. Like they want to use an 'English' name but resent themselves for it, so try and make it Irish! Grin

foorisajar · 10/03/2022 22:00

I know a Shivon and a Shevaughn. I worked with a woman called Sadhbh. It was a business big enough for people to come across her name but not know or encounter her personally. As no one knew for ages how to pronounce her name they used to sing the muppets theme tune when referring to her.

HeyGirlHeyBoy · 10/03/2022 21:59

Ah Scottish, so not Irish then. That sounds right Ailis, to me, would be Alish... V Alice sounding in fact! Generally, as I understood it, Irish names are standalone, not 'versions of'. So people say Sorcha is Irish for Sarah but that's not accurate. Yes they are beautiful names. Do you like Caoilfhionn?

Original poster
Snowbell99 · 10/03/2022 21:57

@HeyGirlHeyBoy

The poet Eavan Boland is Ee-VAN afaik. Know another Ee-VAN myself also. Hadn't made the Aoibheann connection.
With the emphasis on the second syllable? The one I know says EE-ven. Like the word "even" just a bit of a stronger emphasis on the first syllable. I pronounce Aoibheann as EE-ven too.
OP posts:
Original poster
Snowbell99 · 10/03/2022 21:55

@HeyGirlHeyBoy

I don't think the A or E variants come from Alice or Elizabeth as, as Irish names, they are likely to have preceded both and are names in their own right. Tho as I say I don't know Ailis at all (and wouldn't pronounce it Ailish so perhaps it is just another anglicisation?) Éilis gives the Ay sound. Eilís different again, as you say. I know one of each, no problem with pronunciation, but much prefer the sound of the former personally. Aoibheann beautiful, as you say, the spelling is part of the attraction. I feel the same about Caoilfhionn.
It says everywhere on the internet that Ailís is the Irish form of Alice but I cannot tell you if this is 100% correct. But I am so glad we can discuss Irish names here. I love them. Normally when I post about an Irish name somewhere I never receive an answer, you just get answers when you post names that a lot of people are familiar with so I am so glad I found this place.

Ailis (no fada) is apparently Scottish for Alice and AY-lish. Again not 100% sure, just what I found.

OP posts:
ThirdElephant · 10/03/2022 21:53

@Snowbell99

Oh, sorry to hear that you have been bullied that is terrible.

I also see "kill Ian" when I see Killian. But I am so used to it that it doesn't bother me much.

As for Kaitlyn, I dislike the spelling but I don't mind Katelyn because to me it's not the Irish name but just Kate + Lyn(n).

Me too on Katelyn. I just think of it as an amalgamation name, like Maryann or Annabelle. I'd usually spell it with a C though- Caitlyn.
HeyGirlHeyBoy · 10/03/2022 21:53

The poet Eavan Boland is Ee-VAN afaik. Know another Ee-VAN myself also. Hadn't made the Aoibheann connection.