Page 7 | How to pronounce Talia

GemLooper · 2021-10-06T19:50:33+00:00

Would you say Tah-lee-uh or tar-lee-uh?

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

StrychnineInTheSandwiches · 07/10/2021 09:36

I mean you actually stated that you believe Trevor McDonald, a man with a clear Trinidadian lilt, doesn't have an accent.

SionnachRua · 07/10/2021 09:34

There is no difference, they're all accented and would be seen as such by outsiders. Geographic link or no geographic link.

I can't 'hear' my accent myself - it's just my voice, I know no different - but I'm perfectly aware that I have one. Like absolutely everyone else.

StrychnineInTheSandwiches · 07/10/2021 09:33

Christing Christ. Facepalm at some of these comments. Please go on the basic foundation that most of us have left our twee villages and seen the sights of the town next door

Hmmm, I just don't know. I'm not sure it's evident that the elders have ever allowed you beyond the village gates. You clearly are struggling with the idea that you, and everyone else who speaks as
you do, have an accent. And that's just odd.

TwinsandTrifle · 07/10/2021 09:31

I haven't "worked hard" not to have an accent. Just as I'm sure someone hasn't worked hard to have a Mancunian accent.

I just can't understand why the sneering and projecting somehow it's snobbery at the clear difference between:

Nadine Coyle. Londonderry accent.
Noel Gallagher. Mancunian accent.
Cilla Black. Liverpudlian accent.

And KM (which I think is a bad example because it's being too connected with her status as a royal) so how about Daniel Radcliffe. John Cleese. "Received pronunciation with no geographical link"

The last is not speaking with any geographical association. The first 3 are

bookworm14 · 07/10/2021 09:28

I said on another thread yesterday that wasn’t even about pronunciation that I feel like my gravestone would read ‘she died trying to achieve detente between rhotic and non rhotic speakers on the question of the pronunciation of R after a vowel when trying to describe a vowel sound.’

JassyRadlett · 07/10/2021 09:25

On a serious note, did some people not learn about old and Middle English in school? I am really not trying to be condescending or anything, I went to a very shitty secondary school and we certainly learned about the history of the English language and it's pronunciation, so I kind of assumed everyone would.

I went to school in Australia and we definitely did.

JassyRadlett · 07/10/2021 09:24

@bookworm14

Oh god, I’m having flashbacks to the notorious ‘how do you pronounce Frances?’ thread.

MN is so batshit about accents.

I said on another thread yesterday that wasn’t even about pronunciation that I feel like my gravestone would read ‘she died trying to achieve detente between rhotic and non rhotic speakers on the question of the pronunciation of R after a vowel when trying to describe a vowel sound.’

Seriously, it’s like Mary I and Calais.

Bimblybomeyelash · 07/10/2021 09:22

Tah-lee-uh or tar-lee-uh

Those sound the same to me!

Plotato · 07/10/2021 09:22

@TwinsandTrifle

An accent is just a way of pronouncing a language. If you speak, you have an accent.

Well, if this is the case, by default I must have. I wouldn't have a clue what to call mine though. I wouldn't no what to call my friends

Yes but presumably it is some degree of an English accent as opposed to Scottish English, Indian English, American English etc. The UK is actually quite unusual in having such a broad range of accents, in linguistics there are frequent references to GA - General American - as there is much less diversity there (yes yes, I know there are southern accents, Boston accents etc but for the size of country it has much less linguistic diversity).

JassyRadlett · 07/10/2021 09:22

@TwinsandTrifle

An accent is just a way of pronouncing a language. If you speak, you have an accent.

Well, if this is the case, by default I must have. I wouldn't have a clue what to call mine though. I wouldn't no what to call my friends

I mean, we’ve told you a couple of times on this thread.

If it’s what you’re calling the ‘neutral/proper/just like that lovely Kate Middleton says it’ it’s RP/SSE (depending on your views on old v new RP.)

Even if you don’t live in the SE. The class overlay of RP since late Victorian times at least is fairly well documented definitely hasn’t been examined and documented and discussed over the last century or so by everyone from serious sociolinguists to Nancy Mitford.

minatrina · 07/10/2021 09:19

I wonder what these "no accent" folk will do when they realise there was a time before today's SE accents existed and all English people had rhotic accents 😱😱😱

On a serious note, did some people not learn about old and Middle English in school? I am really not trying to be condescending or anything, I went to a very shitty secondary school and we certainly learned about the history of the English language and it's pronunciation, so I kind of assumed everyone would.

bookworm14 · 07/10/2021 09:18

Oh god, I’m having flashbacks to the notorious ‘how do you pronounce Frances?’ thread.

MN is so batshit about accents.

TwinsandTrifle · 07/10/2021 09:17

An accent is just a way of pronouncing a language. If you speak, you have an accent.

Well, if this is the case, by default I must have. I wouldn't have a clue what to call mine though. I wouldn't no what to call my friends

RichardMarxisinnocent · 07/10/2021 09:14

@TwinsandTrifle

Yes, I don't have an accent, in the sense that if you heard me speak, you could eliminate the places I'm not from, but you would be left with a very long list from which you would then have to guess.

The place I live in does have a regional accent, but I don't have it. I would say it's a 50/50 split of who does and who doesn't, from the people I know. My father does, my mother doesn't. You'd know I wasn't from Edinburgh, Manchester, Derry, because they are very distinctive. My voice is pretty non descript. Like DM.

I could be from Surrey. London. Nottingham. Suffolk, a load of places (simply picking those 4 because I have friends born and raised in each, who all sound the same, as do I, and I don't live in any of those)

You do have an accent. Everyone has an accent. It's impossible not to have an accent. An accent isn't necessarily strongly regional. An accent is just a way of pronouncing a language. If you speak, you have an accent.

minatrina · 07/10/2021 09:12

@TwinsandTrifle

Yes, I don't have an accent, in the sense that if you heard me speak, you could eliminate the places I'm not from, but you would be left with a very long list from which you would then have to guess.

The place I live in does have a regional accent, but I don't have it. I would say it's a 50/50 split of who does and who doesn't, from the people I know. My father does, my mother doesn't. You'd know I wasn't from Edinburgh, Manchester, Derry, because they are very distinctive. My voice is pretty non descript. Like DM.

I could be from Surrey. London. Nottingham. Suffolk, a load of places (simply picking those 4 because I have friends born and raised in each, who all sound the same, as do I, and I don't live in any of those)

You still have an accent, I'm assuming a generic SE/modern RP accent. Just because you don't come from there, it doesn't mean you don't have the accent.

Lots of people have accents that are different to where they came from. I know a girl with an (fairly subtle) Irish accent who has never lived in Ireland, because her parents are Irish. There are also accents that people deliberately train themselves into having that are not associated with any location (more of a historical thing but not totally - for example, middle class try-hards deliberately training their children to have SE/modern RP accents rather than a regional one)

JassyRadlett · 07/10/2021 09:08

The place I live in does have a regional accent, but I don't have it. I would say it's a 50/50 split of who does and who doesn't, from the people I know. My father does, my mother doesn't. You'd know I wasn't from Edinburgh, Manchester, Derry, because they are very distinctive. My voice is pretty non descript. Like DM.

Just because you’ve adopted/retained an accent that isn’t dominant in your area doesn’t mean that the accent doesn’t have a regional association. Accents bleed all over the place in a mobile society and shift quite quickly over time (and even within individuals over their lifetimes.)

You have an accent. You might think it’s the ‘proper’ one because that’s what you’ve always been told by people who think that accent as a signifier of class is important, and that’s why RP/SSE do exist as minority accents outside the South East - because a class obsessed society dictated that it was ‘better’ and parents of a certain class (or with aspirations to that class) ensured their children spoke with that accent. I know people of my grandparents’ generation who wouldn’t send their kids to the local village school because ‘heaven knows what sort of an accent they’d develop.’

You’d also never guess where I’m from by my accent as mine is pretty much now the accent of where I live. That would probably make you happy as it’s the one you think is special and neutral. It’s not, it’s an historical quirk that people have been brainwashed to think is somehow ‘neutral’.

SionnachRua · 07/10/2021 09:05

@TwinsandTrifle

Yes, I don't have an accent, in the sense that if you heard me speak, you could eliminate the places I'm not from, but you would be left with a very long list from which you would then have to guess.

The place I live in does have a regional accent, but I don't have it. I would say it's a 50/50 split of who does and who doesn't, from the people I know. My father does, my mother doesn't. You'd know I wasn't from Edinburgh, Manchester, Derry, because they are very distinctive. My voice is pretty non descript. Like DM.

I could be from Surrey. London. Nottingham. Suffolk, a load of places (simply picking those 4 because I have friends born and raised in each, who all sound the same, as do I, and I don't live in any of those)

But then you still have an accent. I have a similar Irish accent in that I'm sure you could place it as Irish but you'd struggle to pin down the exact location. That doesn't mean that I don't have an obvious accent. Just means it's not immediately obvious to outsiders.

If someone can clock you as English - I'm sure they do - then they'll class you as having an English accent. And they'd be right to do so.

steppemum · 07/10/2021 09:03

I know 2.

One is a long A sound - Taah - lee - uh

The other is a short A sound Ta- lee - uh.

(in your OP, I would say Tah and Tar the same? Both represent a long A sound? - assuming you are not rolling the r)

I think the long sound is nicer actually

MrsRobbieHart · 07/10/2021 09:02

The place I live in does have a regional accent, but I don't have it.

I’m certain you don’t! I’m sure you work very hard to not have a regional accent.

SionnachRua · 07/10/2021 09:02

@TwinsandTrifle

Of course English people have an English accent. Just like Americans have an American accent or the Irish have an Irish accent. Or Scots a Scottish accent.

These are all encompassing terms for people that come from that location. People in America have an "American" accent. People from Scotland all have Scottish accents, but they are eg Glaswegian, or Edinburgh accents, which have very different sounds.

I know what I mean, it's hard to explain. Sort of, that being able to identify someone is English, by their voice, doesn't mean they have an accent. The country isn't an accent within that country?

By definition, if you can identify that someone is English from their accent then they have an English accent. Now, you can break that down into Yorkshire/Mancunian/London etc. But they are still accented.

The English aren't some special snowflakes - if there's no English accent (because there are multiple variations) then there's no Irish accent and the Irish are pronouncing words in their raw form too. Irish accents can be divided into North Dublin, Belfastian, Cork, Derry etc etc. Exactly the same as the English.

TwinsandTrifle · 07/10/2021 09:00

Yes, I don't have an accent, in the sense that if you heard me speak, you could eliminate the places I'm not from, but you would be left with a very long list from which you would then have to guess.

The place I live in does have a regional accent, but I don't have it. I would say it's a 50/50 split of who does and who doesn't, from the people I know. My father does, my mother doesn't. You'd know I wasn't from Edinburgh, Manchester, Derry, because they are very distinctive. My voice is pretty non descript. Like DM.

I could be from Surrey. London. Nottingham. Suffolk, a load of places (simply picking those 4 because I have friends born and raised in each, who all sound the same, as do I, and I don't live in any of those)

TuftyMarmoset · 07/10/2021 09:00

With a long A. I prefer the spelling Thalia.

JassyRadlett · 07/10/2021 08:59

See, with these two, the underlying accent (or no accent) is the same to me. They speak the same, but he is more loud, and she is more "posh". Does that make sense? If Morgan was less foghorn, he'd sound akin to KM.

Their vowels are quite different; I’d say he used to be closer to hers but has shifted; she’s stayed much more old(er)-school RP rather than SSE.

Livpool · 07/10/2021 08:59

Tal-ee-ah

JassyRadlett · 07/10/2021 08:58

@TwinsandTrifle

"I'd say Kate Middleton has a received pronunciation accent. It's not necessarily linked to a region or location, but it's still an accent.*

That's sort of what I mean. She just pronounces her words properly.

A Glaswegian person speaks words perfectly in a Glaswegian accent. KM speaks words perfectly with no geographical link.

Ah, good, we know where we are now. You’re not stupid, you’re a crashing snob, and trying to mask that by pretending the accent you see as superior/‘proper’ isn’t an accent at all.

(KM has a strong geographical link; RP and SSE are both strongly associated with Southern England. Even the dictionary (the Concise Oxford in this case) says so.)