How to pronounce Talia

ah*, not yah… yah is a bit posh.

@Bobsyer yah is nothing to do with being posh, it’s just people’s accents.

@Fluffypastelslippers yes, I have a non-rhotic accent so I think I would pronounce them all like you pronounce paw. I’ve never heard anyone pronounce poor with an oo sound or pour with an oh sound.

*^Where does a RP accent come from.
No specific area.^

Again, that is at best heavily disputed.

Described in 1917 by a linguist as ‘everyday speech in the families of Southern English persons whose men-folk [had] been educated at the great public boarding-schools.’

Described more recently by the Concise Oxford as ‘the standard accent of English as spoken in the South of England.’*

That's really informative. I'd dismiss the 1917 thing pretty much straight away, as things evolve, especially language, and imagine very few of us sound like we would have done over 100yrs ago. But the more recent Oxford narrative, is really interesting. When was that stated do you know? South of England is very broad too, and contains many regional accents. It's weird that it's stated as the standard, for the lower (third?) of the country, when there will be as many regional accents as in the middle third, for example, but the middle third doesn't have it's own "generalised standard" like RP? Or does it?

I've got bad news for you about for, fore, four and floor.

Not all across England, but in SSE yes those sounds are all the same.

Maybe the Southern England grip on film and TV isn't as strong as we thought!

Well maybe he has. He sounds like me. And I haven't. Neither have the people I know that sound the same and live all over the country.

Yes, mainly because class, as mentioned upthread. The spread of RP/SSE outside its core geographical base is class-based and has been for more than a century.

Well your ears need a fixin' as Trevor McDonald has a clear Trinidadian lilt to his voice. He does not sound like Daniel Radcliffe.

You know some people pronounce things differently? For some Scottish people poor pour and paw all sound different.

Ok, I'm Scottish but this has me stumped.

Poor - p OO r

Pour - p OH r

Paw - p AW

Are you telling me it's common on England for OO, OH and AW to sound the same

Daniel Radcliffe has also been voice coached to within an inch of his life.

Well maybe he has. He sounds like me. And I haven't. Neither have the people I know that sound the same and live all over the country.

He went to one of the poshest schools in the country

I didn't. Nor the people I know.

and is an ACTOR

Well yes, I have to pick recognisable people with the voices I'm referring too, (big actors/celebs/public figures) because asking you what "my friend Lauren" sounds like doesn't really work.

I can't think of anyone who's going to be known nationwide (so pretty much someone seen by all on TV/film/music industry) who's got a voice you can immediately, unmistakeably hear in your head. If I could, I'd be using them. As the "well they've been coached to sound like that" conveniently can be applied to most people in the entertainment industry. It doesn't apply at all to the volumes of people who just speak like that.

In my head, Daniel Radcliffe and, say, Trevor McDonald, sound the same, as in same non accent, but Trev sounds posher

I think that's the difference between phonology and phonics used in reading schemes, so no, not wrong if it's phonics (which I've always been confused by)

Thanks again Geamhradh. It's confusing all right.

No, that's a different word.

I would Tally-a with a short A sound, as there was two in my primary school who pronounced it that way.

Tah sounds like someone trying to posh it up.

^Where does a RP accent come from.
No specific area.^

Again, that is at best heavily disputed.

Described in 1917 by a linguist as ‘everyday speech in the families of Southern English persons whose men-folk [had] been educated at the great public boarding-schools.’

Described more recently by the Concise Oxford as ‘the standard accent of English as spoken in the South of England.’

There’s obviously a very strong class overlay but that is also heavily correlated geographically (historically) - the SE was seen as the norm/centre of UMC life.

Thanks also steppemum. I have an Irish accent and I say both carpet and caravan with a short a.

sitting here trying to say it in an Irish accent to hear it and I think I've got it!

I love the multiple ways in which we say things. I think the idea that we teach phonics as a way of reading really interesting, we need mutiple phonic programmes to fit mutiple ways of speaking.

But I still say that the debates on here are usually between those 2 forms of the letter A
bath/bath
grass/grass
Frances/Frances

It always boils down to long A or short A. Even within that there are probably a dozen or more versions of the long A depending on accent!

The "a" in both "cake" and "ate" is part of the /ei/ diphthong.
Long "a" (letter) is phonetically /a:/ (car, bar, grass (if you're a southern softy)

Thanks Geamhradh. There are lots of phonics videos for kids with the a sound in cake and ape described as the long a...is this wrong so? I'm not a linguist I'm afraid.

Thanks also steppemum. I have an Irish accent and I say both carpet and caravan with a short a.

Where does a RP accent come from. No specific area. I think it's whether you view accents as regional dialects, which I do. Or "posh sounding" as an accent too. Which I don't

That's all well and good for your ego, but you're just redefining words which have accepted meaning in this context.

Everyone has an accent

Not everyone speaks like you

You really can't be that baffled, surely. Or should that be shawlee or some other weird mangling of English

I’ve taught a Talia. first syllable pronounced Tar

"Jack was about to share his private yacht with his football coach when he received a cable informing him that the engine needed repair"

Here's a sentence we use in my line of work to illustrate how many pronunciations of "a" there are in British English phonology.
It's not 2. and /a:/ and /æ/ aren't the most common.

Tar Lee ah

Both of those pronunciations in my accent sounds the same. The majority of people i know with that name pronounce it as tah Lee uh, but I have know a tu Lee ah

I say the first syllable of carpet and caravan the same grin
I thought the a in cake or ape was the long a sound?

Oh that's interesting, I thought in pretty much every accent those two were different. I apologise, stand corrected.

yes a in cake is the long A.

How do you say carpet and caravan? Short or long?

A does make other sounds but the long and short are the most common, and in these Talia/Frances debates, it is really a debate between saying it with long A or short A.

So if someone spoke with an American accent, but you couldn’t pinpoint the exact spot in the US they came from, would you say they don’t have an accent?

Gaaaaargh

As a globally recognised accent. All accents within America are an American accent. It's identifying the country not the regional dialect. You can identify the country they're from. Not where within that country by "American"

apparently Daniel Radcliffe has described his own accent as a 'boring, middle-of-the road English

This!!! "Middle of the road" as in neither here nor there. Boring English, without any regional dialect accentuation!