Keeva for a girl

@B0G0F

Xavier is a Spanish-French name. Relatively recent import to the U.K. - 18th/19thc and mispronounced here.

Equally, Anaïs becomes Annay, Maëlys becomes Mayliss.

@SeanChailleach

So is Keeveen pronounced equal stress on both syllables - or KeeVEEN?

Sorry to be pedantic but I’m interested.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow,

Irish names will go the same way as Richard and Xavier. Both are pronounced correctly, in the UK, as Ritch-uhd and Zay-vee-er.
Those names have been known in the UK for centuries.

The problem with Irish (and other languages) names is that often neither the spelling or pronunciation is kept, the names become mainstream and you are corrected or look a right tit if you use the original pronunciation or spelling.

Quaver is nice. Quiver would make a great middle name for Orla.

Sounds a little like Quaver. The crisps. I like Caoimhe though. Pronounced (Qwee-va)

MissLucyEyelesbarrow

Not to mention Richard and Ottilie, they say them as Ritchurd and Otteelee

It was a joke, in response to the comment about Xavier.

Shaun-aid doesn't sound like any name ever, it sounds like a benefit concert for Shauns.

French name Jean, Irish name Seán
plus the feminine ending that in French is -ette, in Irish is -ait

Like Gabain plus -ait gives you Gabnait.

Shaunaid doesn't even make the same sound as Sinead...it's not just a terrible spelling, its just plain wrong! Anyone calling their kid Shaunaid should be given a good slap and made to read Peig. Twice.

The person who called their child Shaunaid was writing down a family name which is pronounced like that and might be spelt Seánad in Irish.

Spelling Siobhán as Shivaun is perfectly reasonable. When Bananarama were at the height of their fame I was told by several little girls that the name was pronounced Sigh-obban. Nothing I could say would make them change their minds. It didn't make them more aware of Irish - they thought I was winding them up.

Sounds like (chicken) kiev.

Not to mention Richard and Ottilie, they say them as Ritchurd and Otteelee

Richard has been in use in England since the Norman Conquest, so I think we've probably earned the right to pronounce it how we want by now.

This whole debate is so silly. Cultures borrow and adapt names all the time. What are the top 10 baby names in Ireland?

Jack
James
Noah
Conor
Daniel
Emily
Grace
Emma
Sophie
Amelia

Only 1 of those is Irish in origin. Emma is Old German. I hope all the Irish families using it are pronouncing it in an authentically Teutonic way?

i know a Shivaun and a Shaunaid and both those spellings are so awful compared with Siobhan and Sinead

Shaunaid doesn't even make the same sound as Sinead...it's not just a terrible spelling, its just plain wrong! Anyone calling their kid Shaunaid should be given a good slap and made to read Peig. Twice.

Fair point about anglicisations. Some names are hard to pronounce in other languages and get mangled - English really murders French Genevieve - Zjenuh vee airve and Xavier becomes Zay vee er.

Not to mention Richard and Ottilie, they say them as Ritchurd and Otteelee.

Posted too soon obviously we know how Old Irish was pronounced in general but names are different from ordinary words.

When I was saying modern pronunciations can be spurious I meant spurious accuracy and I was thinking of Kevin not Keeva.

Caoimhe is a modern form of the name and it's lovely. Keeva is a good approximation, and Keeveen is a good approximation of Caoimhín., but not of Cóemgen. Kevin is all the evidence we have, so it probably sounded like that

i know a Shivaun and a Shaunaid and both those spellings are so awful compared with Siobhan and Sinead

Agree. OTOH, I quite like Neve.

Personally I would avoid any names that are going to be frequently mangled because you don't know what the child's personality will be. Some people love having an unusual (for this country) name. Others find it torture to be constantly dealing with comments and mispronunciations.

I'd go for Caoimhe as a middle name, then the child can choose to use it if she likes being unusual (for Britain).

The Saint Kevin was Cóemgen. No fada. Modern Irish Caoimhín is a subtly different name. It's "caomh" with a diminutive ending.

I take the view that the anglicisations indicate authentic old pronunciations, and that basing pronunciations on modern spellings is spurious.

Interesting. How would Cóemgen be pronounced, is Kevin accurate?

Fair point about anglicisations. Some names are hard to pronounce in other languages and get mangled - English really murders French Genevieve - Zjenuh vee airve and Xavier becomes Zay vee er.

It's such a shame that a thread on a name that OP says is Irish is infiltrated by Irish posters.

I’d say it’s a shame that a comment from a non-Irish poster is dismissed particularly as the OP likely isn’t Irish.

Trying to twist that into an issue with Irish posters’ contributions is just goady.

I take the view that the anglicisations indicate authentic old pronunciations, and that basing pronunciations on modern spellings is spurious.

You have a point SeanChailleach, though there's a lot more involved as you know. The same sounds don't exist in all languages so approximation is necessary. And the pronunciation may change and drift in the 'new' language just as in the original.

In any case, Keeva is quite a recent anglicisation so I don't think your theory can hold in this case. Kevin maybe, I'm not sure (though we probably don't need to go back as far as Old Irish I would think?).

And I'm born Irish, no exciting foreign blood at all (much to my disappointment, my 23&me results would be dull as dishwater). Irish name, whole family with Irish names, loads of Irish names among friends and friends children...you'd have the Johns and Marys among that number too of course but ime Irish names are widely used.

As someone with no Irish heritage at all living in London I would say use Caoimhe. I've met several (most pronounced Keeva, maybe because they're living here, but one pronounced Keefa) and it's very easy to learn how to say it if people don't know. The proper spellings, as well as being more authentic, frankly just look better as well. I know a Shivaun and a Shaunaid and both those spellings are so awful compared with Siobhan and Sinead.
Caoimhe is such an attractive sounding and looking name.

That's OK @LizzieAnt.
I'm not Irish. The Irish people I know have names like Paul, Mark, Ian, Olivia, Frances, Conor and Julie. The Niamhs, Sineads, Seans, Liams, and Siobhans are mainland uk born, and not all with Irish heritage.

Sorry, cross-post! That wasn't to MerryChristmas toYou. Just in general.

There's a problem though - just because you're Irish doesn't necessarily make you an expert on Irish language names, not unless you're a fluent or native speaker. I say this as someone who isn't a native speaker btw, I'm Irish but like most of us, English is my first language. Many, many Irish people pronounce various Irish names incorrectly - and Caoimhe is challenging. No, we won't be stumped by it, as someone outside Ireland may be, but we very often pronounce it naturally using the sounds of the English language, which are not at all the same as the sounds of Irish. So Irish people get it a bit wrong too, and sadly, we're often not even aware that we're doing so.