Lilibet Diana — what do we think?

Lots of grandmothers would LOVE having their nickname used. Yes you are generalising.

Not sure that lots of grandmothers would love it if the grandchild concerned has just been broadcasting to the world how dreadful they and their family are.

You’re right, Margaret. Perhaps he might have issues with his family, but I just think jumping to the conclusion that he thinks that his family are toxic or are racist, seems quite bizarre. Unless those were his very words, it’s just jumping to wild conclusions.

And in regards to publishing, unfortunately that’s how it works. Many talented authors and poets etc often go unnoticed by the publishing world unless they’ve somehow established their name. It is what it is. But I think now with the advent of social media, positive changes can still be made.

Don’t like it at all. Very try hard.

Elizabeth would have been better.

It's not really a wild assertion to think Harry has issues with his family (which he has openly spoken about), or that there has been consternation in the RF about the name choice, when a palace source has told the BBC this. Perhaps Liz herself is delighted though. Who knows!

Regarding publishing, yes people would crticise whichever name she used, you are right. This is probably deeply unfair. But unknown would be writers probably think it's deeply unfair that any celeb can get a huge advance on a poem, because of who they are.

Meghan is the Duchess of Sussex. What was she supposed to use? If she used Meghan Markle, it would be seen as a royal snub, if she used Meghan Mountbatten-Windsor, she’d still be accused that she’s using her royal connections just as she’s been accused of such for her using her title.

As for Harry, the grandson, choosing to use Lilibet, how do we know QE2, his grandmother, is against it? I haven’t watched the Oprah interview nor have I heard the podcasts people were mentioning, but really? Did he actually say that his family are toxic or that they’re racist? It’s like when people were accusing of trying to censor his mother. All I see is a dysfunctional family who have a public role and the whole world seems to know more about their intentions than they themselves seem to be saying. With the exception for clear cut evidence, for instance with Sarah, Andrew and Sophie, I don’t see how people can extrapolate such wild assertions.

Fair enough. If they asked and got permission from a delighted Queen, then that's not insensitive. If they didn't ask TQ but told her in an excited post-birth zoom call and she couldn't exactly refuse, this could (in my view) be viewed as insensitive.

It's their call either way what they call their baby, of course!

It's not really a presumption to suggest it is insensitive not to ask before using a highly personal nickname, it's just common sense (in my opinion).

Obviously it is a moot point whether it was discussed beforehand. Two differing camps as we all know.

The Jan Moir article you referred to suggested it was insensitive simply using the name at all.

That I find massively presumptive.

The levels of presumption on here are wild

It's not really a presumption to suggest it is insensitive not to ask before using a highly personal nickname, it's just common sense (in my opinion).

I also don't understand why people suggesting it was a bit off are labelled nutters on MN. That's a bit rude. Appalling even, as Rousette would point out I am just passing some time before tea, like everyone else.

I agree that it sounds like SF was treated badly by some people the palace. However, I also think there are two sides to every story and that only one side ever gets told, presumably due to NDAs.

I don't think either of them should be able to get book deals because of their titles, and I also disagree with celebrity book deals, but then that's publishing!

A link to what?

Here's her book if that's what you mean. She talks of 'the frustrations, the humiliations and the occasional joys of being in the House of Windsor'.

The Oprah interview is on youtube.

It isn't hearsay . I don't go around just making things up!

Here is one of the reviews about the book...
'I couldn't believe how horribly she was treated by who are basically the Board of Directors in the Palace. They tried to get her out from day one. They tried to order her around, lied to her, lied to the press about her, told the press Prince Andrew was embarrassed by her which was never the case, and through all of it the Queen never fired them! That only made them bolder'

Have you got a link because I have never heard of this before. I always thought that the Duchess of York had remained very loyal to the RF because of her continuing relationship with her ex husband and for the well being of her dsughters. I am happy to be proved wrong by something more substantial than hearsay.

Well, she did. As I said above.

Books on it. I think it was called 'My Life'. She said she was miserable in the RF and talks of the 'grey men'. And to Oprah.

I haven’t heard the Duchess of York bemoaning the RF.

Yes she wrote loads. Not just childrens books. There was 'Dining with the Duchess' and 'Dieting with the Duchess' and 'My story' type books too.

I just think it's wrong to criticise MM for using her title when they all do it and are prolific.

Plenty of remarks were made at the time about other royals who wrote books. Fergie’s children’s books can’t have been that bad though as she wrote quite a lot, didn’t she?

Errmmmm.... you obviously havven't heard Sarah Ferguson's tell all book and OW interview talking about how awful it was to be in the RF. She called her time in the royal family as miserable and not a fairy tale at all and talked of the courtiers etc.

No. There should not be different rules for Meghan. Appalling to think that should be the case.

She is Duchess of Sussex. Like it or not.

And SF brought out a Mills & Boon back in January, twenty five years after she left the royal family... calling herself Duchess of York.

So no, just no.

They didn’t leave the RF institution and then say how toxic and racist they all are. Oh, and bad parents. That’s why there are different rules.

Why does she need her title rather than just her name as most authors do

What like the rest of the RF do? Prince Charles, Princess Michael of Kent and Sarah Ferguson who flogged Duchess of York on a huge amount of books.

Is it one rule for them, but another one for Meghan?

^Harry really hurt his Grandma whilst PP was dying in hospital. Didn’t stop there and won’t. If she meant that much to him he wouldn’t have disrespected the RF the way he has in such a public manner.

It’s clearly to try curry favour with the queen, and to try underline that although they hate her racist institution theyre still happy to milk the association with it for all its worth.

See “Meghan, Duchess of Sussex’ on the title page of her new book.^

I agree.

Why does she need her title rather than just her name as most authors do ?

I actually agree with Jan Moir. There were so many versions of Elizabeth they could have used. Using her private nickname (it seems without express permission) was insensitive. I am generalising, but if he were a granddaughter not grandson he would probably have realised this!

Lots of grandmothers would LOVE having their nickname used. Yes you are generalising.

I wanted to use my grandmother's nickname had I had a girl. All round delight.

The levels of presumption on here are wild.

The nutters still at it I see

Great post @Brazilianut
I fully agree.
Disrespect when PP was dying
Trying to curry favour now.

Harry really hurt his Grandma whilst PP was dying in hospital. Didn’t stop there and won’t. If she meant that much to him he wouldn’t have disrespected the RF the way he has in such a public manner.

It’s clearly to try curry favour with the queen, and to try underline that although they hate her racist institution theyre still happy to milk the association with it for all its worth.

See “Meghan, Duchess of Sussex’ on the title page of her new book.

I actually agree with Jan Moir. There were so many versions of Elizabeth they could have used. Using her private nickname (it seems without express permission) was insensitive. I am generalising, but if he were a granddaughter not grandson he would probably have realised this!

I think people should be able to name their kids what they like, but most people accept that some family names are more sensitive.