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Baby names

Find baby name inspiration and advice on the Mumsnet Baby Names forum.

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Original poster

Osian

63 replies

Edenember · 29/04/2021 10:17

How is this pronounced? I realise there’s an anglicised pronounciation which is usually spelled Ossian pronounced how it looks. But is this pronounced o-shan/shun or Oh-shan/shun?

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TatianaBis · 29/04/2021 17:13

Of course they compare: yne-eena, shan-sheen.

This kind of bananas pedantry is tedious tbh.

iklboo · 29/04/2021 17:03

I've never heard that name. It's lovely. Is it too late to change DS(15)'s name?

Original poster

Edenember · 29/04/2021 17:02

@ILoveShula and that’s fair enough. And I’m capable uttering the ‘an’ sound, obviously. But in my accent, in that name, it wouldn’t come out as ‘an’. I think there’s also something going on with stress here tbh, at least if the pronunciation audio I was sent is anything to go by. It seems to me in my (admittedly limited) experience that many 2 syllable Welsh names place equal stress on both syllables. Seren is an another example, where equal weight is given to both, ie much more weight on the ‘ren’ part than is given in English, which has the effect of emphasising the vowel in that part of the word. The word seven is the same. You really hear the vowel in the ‘en’ in Welsh and in most English accents it’s unstressed and clipped (and in my accent comes out ‘in’). I don’t think either party is wrong, it’s just different stress patterns and accent variations. If I was to insist on using the Welsh form Osian but then completely ignore the Welsh ‘sia’ = sha convention, I think that would be a different matter. If I wanted to ignore that, I should use the Anglicised version.

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KirstenBlest · 29/04/2021 16:58

Oisin and Ossian and Osian don't really compare to Caroline and Caroline though do they?
If you had said Caroline and Charlotte, or Karl, Carlos and Charles, it would be nearer.

TatianaBis · 29/04/2021 16:52

It's the same mythological figure. The same name that different branches of Celtic render slightly differently.

A Danish friend of mine is called Caroline. In Danish it's pronounced Caroleena, everyone in England calls her Caroline.

ILoveShula · 29/04/2021 16:47

Indeed they are.
Osian is pronounced Osian because it is Welsh. There is no way it would be pronounced Oshun in Welsh, because there wouldn't be a way of writing that sound in Welsh.

Original poster

Edenember · 29/04/2021 16:39

@KirstenBlest dialect and accent are two different things though.

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KirstenBlest · 29/04/2021 16:34

@TatianaBis, technically they are not the same name. If I insisted that Dafydd was pronounced David, I wouldn't be right, would I, any more than if I said that Dewi was pronounced Dafydd.

KirstenBlest · 29/04/2021 16:28

Welsh is a language not a dialect. A only has two sounds, a like in Welsh cath (welsh for cat) or a as in English cat. The long a in cath doesn't have an identical English sound. You also get the letter a in diphthong vowels, but that's a separate issue.

It isn't down to accent and doesn't compare to scottish dialect.

TatianaBis · 29/04/2021 16:19

@KirstenBlest

It's the same name, same figure from Celtic mythology with Irish, Welsh and Scottish versions - but they're almost the same.

Unlike Merlin which is Myrddin in Welsh and Suibhne in Irish.

If an Irish person pronounces Ossian O'sheen - it's not technically incorrect, it's just the Irish version.

If an Italian person calls Alexandra Alessandra - it's not incorrect, it's simply the Italian version.

Original poster

Edenember · 29/04/2021 16:08

@KirstenBlest I’d say it’s a multi-layered thing. There are definite mispronunciations and incorrectness / correctness to a degree, I.e a long o where it should be a short o as this convo started. We’re all capable of saying both types of o but one is right in this instance. My long o would sound different to a rp speakers long o though, although still recogniseable as an o. Then there are other things where it’s a feature of your accent to commonly and consistently pronounce a certain vowel or digraph differently to rp. Accental variation and non-standard deviations account for some differences in pronunciation, without the pronunciation being ‘incorrect.’ Scottish vowel sounds are a good example.

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KirstenBlest · 29/04/2021 13:58

It's not accent and the sounds aren't interchangeable, but that's regarding the language.

It compares to something like Richard or Edward- where I'm from they are RITCH-add and EDD-wadd but that's not the way the names really sound, is it.
Why don't the parents name their DSs Rhisiart and Iorwerth?

Original poster

Edenember · 29/04/2021 13:18

@KirstenBlest yes, I think it will be more of an un or en where I’m from, which I don’t mind tbh, because it’s just an accent thing. Those sounds are interchangeable here.

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KirstenBlest · 29/04/2021 13:08

Yes, like Bethan gets said as Bethun or Beffun, or Dylan as Dillun.
If you just use Osh, not a problem.

Original poster

Edenember · 29/04/2021 12:39

@KirstenBlest do you mean Oshun as opposed to Oshan?

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KirstenBlest · 29/04/2021 12:07

@Edenember, you weren't arsey at all.

Not really relevant but I don't like Nia said as Near or Nigh-uh either.

KirstenBlest · 29/04/2021 12:00

@Edenember, definitely a short O. Like the o in Tom.

I'd be put off by people saying it as Oshun, but not an issue if you don't mind.

Original poster

Edenember · 29/04/2021 11:58

@KirstenBlest I didn’t mean for that to sound arsey by the way, your answers have cleared things up and been really helpful Thankyou.

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KirstenBlest · 29/04/2021 11:56

@MustBeTheWine, that's it isn't. Even if you pick a not much used name, you can't guarantee that there won't be another one with the name.

Several of my cousins have used the same names for their DC, sometimes the surname is the same too. Two ended up in the same year at school but at least they have different surnames, and even if they are friends, they are only second cousins.

If you really like the name, you might as well use it, if you're prepared for yours to be Osian C or something at school.

Original poster

Edenember · 29/04/2021 11:51

@KirstenBlest I’d heard it pronounced Oshan with the osh as in Josh, but as there seems to be some ambiguity among the English with this name, I was hoping to confirm with Welsh speakers whether it was the osh as in Josh or a longer o as in Ohshan. Which would make it sound like Ocean, which would be a no-go for me.

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MustBeTheWine · 29/04/2021 11:35

It's pronounced Osh-an. Absolutely love the name Osian. It was on the short list of names for my DS1 but 2 children who were born in my town were named Osian while I was still expecting DS1 and we worked out they'd be in the same class as DS1 if they attend the same primary school, which they did, so we opted for another name 😂

KirstenBlest · 29/04/2021 11:32

@TatianaBis, it was the equivalent of saying that Nia and Niamh are said the same.

KirstenBlest · 29/04/2021 11:29

@TatianaBis, it wasn't right, it was the correct pronunciation of Oisín.

TatianaBis · 29/04/2021 11:27

The first reply was right - that's the Irish pronunciation.

KirstenBlest · 29/04/2021 11:20

I'm not keen on Josh because I find the J so close to the sh a bit tricky for my welsh tongue.

Osian tends to be Osh.

The only downsides are that you had to ask how to say it and the first reply was not right. I wouldn't use it as I know quite a few and we already have a few in the family.

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