Active discussions

Help protect children from gaming harms.

Take our survey

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Baby names

Find baby name inspiration and advice on the Mumsnet Baby Names forum.

Original poster

Irish names help!

290 replies

nothingseasy · 17/03/2021 03:39

Hiya,
I'm calling out to all Irish speakers please.

I want to call my baby Ayveen In Irish. I've established from other threads that it's not Aoibheann or Aoibhinn or anything beginning with Aoi as this makes an ee sound. However nobody can conclusively say how it should be spelled.

I'd like to know what letters (diphthong/triphthong) make the aye/ay sound I am looking for. Do they exist in Irish?

Alternatives I've seen are

Éabhaoin
Éimhín
Aibhín

I personally favour the Aibhín but does ai in Irish make the sound ay?

Please help it's driving me mad!!

We are living in England and I want to keep a connection to my Irish heritage so I want an Irish name. We have trawled through them all and this is the only one we liked so when we found out it wasn't even said right we were devastated.

Please don't tell me not to bother with an Irish name in England or that I shouldn't give it an Irish name because they will have trouble e.t.c.

Help resolving the spelling is really all I am after.

Thank you x

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
Set a reminder
Apileofballyhoo · 18/03/2021 18:19

Those teanglann links are interesting - I can definitely hear the 'i' sound at the end of the Munster ones for Naomi, like nay-i and gao-il. I've seen faoi spelled as fé, I suspect that got dumped for the Caighdeán. I think for Aoibheann/Aoibhinn if you accept the ay sound at the beginning is a possibility for a native Munster speaker you'd have to make Ay-iv out of it. But then I would say something more like É-ah-va for Éabha rather than Ava, and Nee-ev for Niamh rather than Neeve.

IsFuzzyBeagMise · 18/03/2021 18:19

@nothingseasy

Don't worry *@IsFuzzyBeagMise* I'm flip flopping all the time!! Keep changing my mind!

The more evidence the better though👍🏼

It's getting a good thrashing out here anyway Grin
Number3BigCupOfTea · 18/03/2021 18:18

If you're worried about ''you made that up'' accusations then Eabha with nn Eabhin is lovely. Little Eva

IsFuzzyBeagMise · 18/03/2021 18:17

I think there will always be variation with Aobhinn/Aoibheann between regional differences and personal opinions on the name.

Number3BigCupOfTea · 18/03/2021 18:17

I'd just go for Éabhín, If I read that, I'd say ayveen in my head.
I'm Irish but I wouldn't know if you'd created that name or not.
If it's not a name, it seems like it should be!

Original poster
nothingseasy · 18/03/2021 18:16

Don't worry @IsFuzzyBeagMise I'm flip flopping all the time!! Keep changing my mind!

The more evidence the better though👍🏼

OP posts:
Original poster
nothingseasy · 18/03/2021 18:13

I suppose it still is an issue using Aoibhinn because every dialect seems to pronounce it with an ee sound..🤔🤔🤔🤔

www.teanglann.ie/en/fuaim/aoibhinn

OP posts:
IsFuzzyBeagMise · 18/03/2021 18:12

I like Éibhín. I said that earlier and flip-flopped to Aibhín Grin

Choose the name you like that will work best. It's a personal choice in the end of the day.

Original poster
nothingseasy · 18/03/2021 18:11

I suppose it can be both then ay or ee sound depending on where your from.

@Apileofballyhoo thanks, yes I was thinking of the Éan éinín thing and it was swinging it for me towards Éibhín

OP posts:
LizzieAnt · 18/03/2021 18:10

The spellings given at www.teanglann.ie are the standard spellings though! Faoi was always spelled as fé in Munster, for example, until the Caighdéan Oifigiúil. The speaker that says gaoil in that link says duine gaoil differently. If you look up 'teach' in Munster you'll hear 'tigh', because that's how it's said there, no matter what the spelling standard says these days. So the pronunciation was reflected in the old spelling, but not necessarily in the new one.

Original poster
nothingseasy · 18/03/2021 18:04

Thank you so much @SeanChailleach this is amazing evidence!

I can use these to remove my mental block against the Aoibhín and Aoibheann Aoibhinn names 🙏🏻🙏🏻

I was kinda getting used to Éibhín though 🤣

OP posts:
Apileofballyhoo · 18/03/2021 18:03

Éabha is an established name gan amhras ar bith, and I don't see why you shouldn't use a diminutive of it. I figure the correct spelling of it would be Éibhín, giving the meaning of little Eve. I'm basing this on the diminutive of other éa words, e.g. éan, éinín, béal, béilín. I did find some Éaibhín names on Google but it doesn't seem right tbh. There seems to be a few Éibhíns around too.

I've looked to see if I can find any pronunciation of 'ai' as ay and the only thing I can find is aidhm, pronounced aim and meaning aim in Ulster (it's pronounced like 'I'm' in the other dialects). But Ulster doesn't pronounce similarly spelled words the same way e.g. snaidhm isn't sname. Mostly it's an 'i' sound like in aghaidh (face) or an ee sound.

Ailís Eilís, anyone? I've seen Aedín/Étaín/Éadaoin anglicised Aideen. So I suspect the ai is an anglicised thing.

The old Irish thing is interesting - the ae and the ao having the same root so to speak - ao is ay in Munster but ee in Connacht so ae=ao in Munster ok. Throw an i in at the end and you're back to ee.

SeanChailleach meant to say I don't think female names get slenderised in the vocative.

Original poster
nothingseasy · 18/03/2021 17:58

Although @SeanChailleach I've never heard Faoi pronounced like that Munster dialect, ever!

OP posts:
Original poster
nothingseasy · 18/03/2021 17:56

Omg @SeanChailleach 🙈🙈 so Aoibheann can work 🤣🤣

🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯

OP posts:
IsFuzzyBeagMise · 18/03/2021 17:55

That's interesting SeanChailleach. Yes. I would have said 'nay' for 'naoi' and 'fwayn tuath' for 'faoin tuath'. (Munster Irish).

SeanChailleach · 18/03/2021 17:40

Examples of aoi pronounced like English "ay" on teanglann:

Only in Munster:
www.teanglann.ie/en/fuaim/faoi
www.teanglann.ie/en/fuaim/gaoil
www.teanglann.ie/en/fuaim/naoi

Only in Ulster and a subtly different sound:
www.teanglann.ie/en/fuaim/saoiste
www.teanglann.ie/en/fuaim/taoibh

I had to search for these to prove to myself that I wasn't imagining it.

Original poster
nothingseasy · 18/03/2021 15:53

I know @P0gM0Th0in

That's a new one for me too! I can't believe it! I honestly thought it meant Neil, like the way Sean is John (I think) but that it's actually pronounced Neil in Irish blew my mind!

OP posts:
Original poster
nothingseasy · 18/03/2021 15:50

Aww don't worry @Gooseysgirl

Thanks for the encouragement. I know she'll face some hassle but also it's an ice breaker and a talking point and a reminder shes Irish which I think outweighs the mispronunciation.
I think she'll appreciate it when she is older. I have loads of Irish cousins in America with names like Niamh and Aoife and people get them wrong all the time but they love that they have Irish names. It's not always a negative.

OP posts:
Original poster
nothingseasy · 18/03/2021 15:44

Thanks @namechangemarch21

" Ayveen / Aoibheann/Aoibhin is definitely the most common spelling/pronunciation in current day Ireland."

Yes for sure it is and I do wish I was just happy to follow the crowd but after reading around it, I just can't. I can see my daughter asking me when she grows up why her name is spelled like that and I will sound it out saying, well.. bh is a v sound in Irish and i(fada) is and eee sound and then aoi is a .......well it's supposed to be ee but lots of people started saying it was ay so we went along with it. Blush So I just can't do it I'm afraid.

"what about the boy's name 'Aodh'"

Yes I think that was one of the reasons we looked at maybe just dropping the i in Aoibheann/inn/i(fada)n so it became Aobheann but we can't have that because of the slender/broad rule in Irish. @SeanChailleach explained earlier that it may have been 2 words Aobh-bhinn in old Irish so the vowel issue wasn't a problem, only when you try merge it into one name.

Oisin was one of my fav boy names as well (my partner can't say it!) Again, I am aware of all the issues of English people not pronouncing it right, i can't think about that too much. Not to be offensive but English people and Americans to be honest are not good at pronouncing anything that isn't standard, not just Irish names. If I made my decision mostly based on that I'd end up calling it something I didn't like. It's obviously a slight consideration but it isn't on the top of my list by any means. I want it to sound right in Irish.

OP posts:
newyorkbreakfast · 18/03/2021 15:40

To get Ay-veen I think you'd need to spell it Éibhín. If you live outside Ireland, just bear in mind she will spend her life correcting people who will mispronounce her name... It's quite a hassle as I know from experience!

Gooseysgirl · 18/03/2021 15:37

@nothingseasy just goes to show I should have RTFT 😆 In that case I'd probably go with Éibhín... good luck with the decision, it's a gorgeous name 🥰 My DS has an Irish name and people rarely get the pronunciation or spelling correct, but it doesn't bother him in the slightest. Plenty of names about in other languages besides Irish that might be challenging to pronounce but everyone just gets on with it 🤷🏻‍♀️

IsFuzzyBeagMise · 18/03/2021 15:36

Yes. I take the point that 'Aibhín' isn't wholly true to Gaeilge. It's a hybrid between English and Irish.

LizzieAnt · 18/03/2021 15:34

I agree with the 'first letter' problems you might have in the UK, OP. I'd agree too that Aibh doesn't usually give the 'ave' sound you're looking for, unfortunately. At least, I've only ever heard it said as either 'ive' or 'av'.
Neil is the Irish language pronunciation of Niall afaik.

P0gM0Th0in · 18/03/2021 15:27

I can’t help with the Aoibh sound, but my mind has been blown by this thread. Niall is not pronounced nye-uhl?! My whole life has been a lie.

LizzieAnt · 18/03/2021 14:58

I just checked the book, the Look Inside preview.. The pronunciation given there is ī-vin, where ī is described as roughly equivalent to the sound in fee. So Eevin, I suppose.
That doesn't mean there weren't other pronunciations I guess.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

Join Mumsnet Log In

This thread is closed and is no longer accepting replies. Click here to start a new thread.