Irish names help!

Interesting debate on this thread!

Queelin is much closer Mindy, but I'd have a different mouth position for saying Caolfhionn. If you listen to caol on teanglann you'll hear the difference. It's nearly like it has two syllables.

Is dóigh go comhfhocal é Caolfhionn, Sean, cosúil le seanbhean, breithlá srl. Mar sin ní leanann sé leathan le leathan caol le caol. Seans maith go bhfuil Aobhfhinn mar an gcéanna.

Is dóigh nach bhfaca mé Caoilfhionn riamh. Rinne mé Google agus chonaic mé é. Daoine ag cloí le leathan le leathan caol le caol gan fhios nach leanann gach focal an riail seo? B'fhéidir gur tharla an rud céanna le Aobhfhinn? Ní fhreagraíonn é sin an cheist faoi 'ín/een' ag deireadh an fhocail - níor chuala mé Caol-ín fós. B'fhéidir go bhfuil sé ag teacht. Tá a fhios agam go bhfuaimnítear 'binn' agus 'cinn' cosúil le 'bín' agus 'cín', ach ní dóigh go bhfuil fín déanta as fionn/finn in áit ar bith Dá mbeadh Ay-vin ag teastáil uaim d'úsáidfinn Aebfind, b'fhéidir. Is féidir a rá ansin (ceann eile nach leanann l le l, c le c!) go bhfuil sean litríú á úsaid agat.

OP, you could write to RnaG Kerry, address is on the website. There doesn't seem to be separate emails for the different locations, just a main one and a Dublin one. We could all help with writing it in Irish - mine is far from perfect but I'm better with writing than speaking. Long long ago I did Celtic Civilization in first year at UCC and we had Pádraig Ó Riain and Máire Herbert as lecturers and I can see either of them being interested/helpful and actually knowing about how the old, old, name was probably said, especially if it was the name of a saint's mother (can't remember the saint, sorry, or where I saw that), and how that name journeyed into modern Irish. For example, 'leabhar' used to be 'lebor' as far as I remember. They are both retired so I don't know how you'd get in touch and I don't know what the new people are like and whether they'd be helpful or interested.

I think it's clear some do pronounce Éimhín as Ayveen as the earlier recording shows. However, a pp said she had met men with the name (complete with fadas) who pronounced it Evan. I think they should have left off the fadas tbh. The version given in the translation of Monasterevan has one fada - Eimhín.

It is interesting isn't it?
How do you pronounce Caolfhionn Apileofballyhoo? I thought 'Keelin' was an accepted pronunciation, but then I spell it Caoilfhionn. I know it may not have been like this originally though, SeanChailleach
I also think it sometimes gets confused with the male name Caolán, which can be Quail-awn or Keelan depending on dialect, and is anglicised as Keelan too.
Poor old Emer should have a h all right, in modern spelling. The Et-na pronunciation of Eithne is also apparently wrong. When these names were revived mistakes were made.

I think I might be able to help here. I worked with a girl called Éimhín who was from the Gaeltacht. She pronounced it Ayveen, and I've always understood that this was the authentic spelling "as Gaeilge" of this name. It makes more sense to be honest, as the fadas are over the E and I. I find all the other versions confusing and never know what way to pronounce them!

Translation: the name Caolfhionn is like Aobhfhinn having a broad consonant next to a slender one, because it's made of two words. You get these debates Kaylin versus Keelin like Ayvin versus Eevin.

This really really is not about the language being lost. Dil.ie has all these forms for the word we spell aobh now:

"oíph, oíb, aíb, oeb, aeb, lan-aeba, aóbh, aoibh, aobha, aebh, aeibhe, áobh, aeib, aoibh, aebglan, oebnār " sic dil.ie/33585

So we are having a thousand year old conversation! How cool is that?

*cosúlacht cha suimiúil

@Apileofballyhoo an bhfuil tú ag rá go ceart é an litriú "Caolfhionn" cé gur chuirfeadh mó spellcheck "Caoilfhionn" air?
Más ea, nach suimiúil "Caolfhionn" agus "Aobhfhinn" mar ainm dhá fhocal le leathan-caol ina lár?

Apileofballyhoo I thought that was a long established name, Caoilfhionn pronounced either Keelin or Queelin. I've known a few over the years. Or were you just referring to the anglicised spelling?

I love teanglann too except when the words I want aren't in the pronunciation thing but I always feel bad about An Rinn.

I feel with the Caighdeán now that at least something is keeping track of grammar, so much is dying out. I find RnaG is not as reliable as it used to be either, and my Irish is nothing special.

No idea why that post went so weird, looks like I copied and pasted a chunk of it by accident!

I never heard Aoibheann/Aoibhinn pronounced as Ay-veen myself so I thought it must be a new thing and probably a mistake that became popular. Like Emer being universally pronounced Ee-mer. But you get all sorts of youneek spellings and pronunciations in names now, in both English and Irish. I once put my foot in it with someone who had named their baby Keelin. Lovely, I said, I I never heard Aoibheann/Aoibhinn pronounced as Ay-veen myself so I thought it must be a new thing and probably a mistake that became popular. But you get all sorts of youneek spellings and pronunciations in names now, in both English and Irish. I once put my foot in it with someone who had named their baby Keelin. Lovely, I said, I never heard that before (thinking it was something like Kylie). Oh it's Irish, came the reply, and as I it's lovely, I'd never heard it, I was told it's spelled C-A-O-L-F-H-I-O-N-N. Light dawned and without thinking I said a big Oh! Caolfhionn! I felt very awkward and wished the ground would swallow me up to be honest.

But you'll get people swearing blind that their name is, or their cousin's/mother's/daughter's name is, and it's pronounced Keelin and that's how everyone says it that they know and that's how it has been since the year dot, and their aunt went to a gaelscoil, and their parents are fluent speakers and they spent every single summer in the Gaeltacht and that's how it is in their dialect. At most you'll get someone who might grudgingly admit it might be different in your dialect. That actually annoys me more.

Anyway it's all part of the sadness of the language being lost.

heard that before (thinking it was something like Kylie). Oh it's Irish, came the reply, and as I repeated it's lovely, I've never heard it, I was told it's spelled C-A-O-L-F-H-I-O-N-N. Light dawned and without thinking I said a big Oh! Caolfhionn! I felt very awkward and wished the ground would swallow me up to be honest.

But you'll get people swearing blind that their name is, or their cousin's/mother's/daughter's name is, and it's pronounced Keelin and that's how everyone says it that they know and that's how it has been since the year dot, and their aunt went to a gaelscoil, and their parents are fluent speakers and they spent every single summer in the Gaeltacht and that's how it is in their dialect. At most you'll get someone who might grudgingly admit it might be different in your dialect. That actually annoys me more.

Anyway it's all part of the sadness of the language being lost. I'll end my little rant.

Yes, I absolutely love teanglann.ie too SeanChailleach
The Caighdeán is used in all the schools so it's widespread. I'm not a huge fan tbh, though I know it serves a purpose, but you're right, that's a whole other discussion.
I agree there would be no harm in looking further afield for information Apileofballyhoo. I think we need help

But yes OP LizzieAnt is right, these ones are anomolies for a reason.

Taoibh is the possessive form of taobh. The example they give there is snámh taoibh, sidestroke.

I have a feeling that the speaker saying gaoil may actually be pronouncing the variant gaol. People pronounce the word they use, and don't pay too much attention to what the Caighdeán says the spelling should be. If you look you'll see that duine gaoil is said differently.
I'm not really sure about naoi tbh. As a general rule, ao is often 'ay' in Munster, but adding an i changes the sound to more like 'ee'. Though to be fair there's a bit of a hint of a richer (dare I say ay) sound in there too sometimes, depending on the word and the speaker. Not really the sound you're looking for though.

I have a Welsh name in England, my Mam's a native Welsh speaker. Pronunciation from others can be dodgy, the spellings even more so. Like your relatives in America, I like having a name which reflects my heritage.

Brace yourself for some rude comments though OP - my Dad's mother actually rang him to complain when told my name! We've had comments from doctor's receptionists, school teachers etc. along the lines of 'what kind of a name is that?' or a refusal to attempt to learn how to say or spell it. My Mam gets quite irate sometimes!

That said, I went to school with a Caoimhe and we all learnt how to say and spell it pretty quickly.

Whichever way you end up spelling it, Ay-veen is a gorgeous name.

Someone saying 'fay'for faoi in Munster would have spelt that fé until relatively recently. It's not that they're pronouncing 'aoi' as 'ay', in that case at least. It's that a spelling standard was thrust upon them and the spellings/pronunciations now don't match.