Irish names help!

My own Irish isn't that great, it's still very much a work in progress. So if I'm noticing teachers etc getting things wrong, then the mistakes are glaring, not subtle. That's what worries me.

That's me and RnaG - I was making the effort to listen to improve my Irish but I found myself a bit shocked. I think you'd have to be told by someone in the know who to listen to. I think maybe audio books read by native speakers would be a good shout. I honestly don't know if there are any.

Right, sorry, with you now again. Thanks
Yes, definitely 'eh'. I notice that too.
My own Irish isn't that great, it's still very much a work in progress. So if I'm noticing teachers etc getting things wrong, then the mistakes are glaring, not subtle. That's what worries me.

Lizzie we were talking about Ao=é in Munster except not when followed by 'i' so Aoi=í and wondering if the name was once spelled aobh and parts of Munster have kept the é sound. Something like that. I suppose particularly if it's a compound word Aobhfhinn like Caolfhionn but somewhere along the way it got an extra i added to it or possibly got mixed up with the actual adjective aoibhinn and maybe those are actually two different words anyway. Who knows.

@Apileofballyhoo

ag an réiltín!

Caoimhe is close to kweev/queev - I can't hear kee for caoi on teanglann. But it's veh (like in the word vet for animal doctor but without the t) at the end, not vah like vat... That's another sound that's dying a death. Aoife should be ee-feh - it's not spelt Aoifea. Baile is bo-ill-eh run together (o sound like in cot), not boll-yah. It's a bit more like boll-eh in Ulster but it's not the same sound as balla as in wall, it's definitely 'eh' not 'ah'.

I think if the words and sounds were said correctly in schools kids would have a much easier time with spellings and grammar. I find the spellings are quite logical when you know the system.

There has been a lot of slippage.

@LizzieAnt

Did a couple of people say É-bhín/ Ay-veen is a Munster pronunciation? Munster in particular, I mean? I can't remember at this stage. Head melting here too

Bhí ionadh an domhain orm!

ag an réiltín!

Caoimhe is close to kweev/queev - I can't hear kee for caoi on teanglann. But it's veh (like in the word vet for animal doctor but without the t) at the end, not vah like vat... That's another sound that's dying a death. Aoife should be ee-feh - it's not spelt Aoifea. Baile is bo-ill-eh run together (o sound like in cot), not boll-yah. It's a bit more like boll-eh in Ulster but it's not the same sound as balla as in wall, it's definitely 'eh' not 'ah'.

I think if the words and sounds were said correctly in schools kids would have a much easier time with spellings and grammar. I find the spellings are quite logical when you know the system.

Did a couple of people say É-bhín/ Ay-veen is a Munster pronunciation? Munster in particular, I mean? I can't remember at this stage.
Head melting here too

That looks good to me! (But, again, no expert).

An-mhaith ar fad, Apile Seo duitse réaltín óir ⭐

Well I'd use 'é' and 'ín' to represent 'ay' and 'een' anyway, OP!

A chara,

tá suim agam san aimn Aoibhinn/Aoibheann. Táim ag iompar clainne agus is cailín beag í. Chuala mé daoine ag usáid 'É-bhín' agus sin an fuaimniú a thaitníonn liom, ach tá a fhios agam go maith go 'í-bhin' an fuaimniú atá ar an bhfocal 'aoibhinn'. Rinne mé taighde air agus fuair mé amach go raibh an t-ainm Aebfind ann fadó, nó Aibfinn, agus go bhfuil seans ann gur 'é' atá i gceist ag tús an ainm seo.

Dúirt cúpla duine liom go b'fhéidir go bhfuil an fuaimniú É-bhín ceart i nGaeilge na Mumhan. Tá cruinneas sa chaint agus sa litriú ag teastáil uaim. Táim ag féachaint ar Éibhín a usáid mar Éabha beag, ach is fearr liom an t-ainm Aoibheann má tá 'É-bhín' ceart sa Mhumhain.

Tá súil agam go bhfuil duine éigin le eolas in ann cabhair a thabhairt dom.

Mise le meas...

Something like that? I probably have plenty of mistakes in it.

It's an education, I give you that.

I have nothing intelligent to add. But I have to say, I love this thread.

Wonder if we'll ever get to the bottom of it

I agree IsFuzzyBeagMise
Sory OP!!

Yes. I see what you mean.

Éabhaoin might work too, logically. Should there be a fada there?
I think Éibhín looks neater.

Your head must be melted by now @nothingseasy

Many Irish people can't say the sounds either OP. I agree so much about them being lost ApileofBallyhoo but thought it was confined to the schools - I didn't realise it had extended to RnaG ( which I really should start listening to again). The standard among teachers (in English language schools at least) is poor, or it is in our school anyway, so the children have no hope of picking up the correct sounds. Seesaw was a bit of an eye opener in that regard I'm afraid.
My Irish isn't the best, so I know it can be hard, but pronunciation is fundamental imo.

I suppose it's a bit like the various ways of saying Caoimhe Apile of Ballyhoo, which begins with Quee for me (sort of), but Kee for others.

I think it was St Enda Apileofballyhoo. I think I say Caoilfhionn as you do too.
As for the spelling of Caoilfhionn/Caolfhionn and Aobhfhinn/Aoibhinn, I'm not sure. Yes they are compound words as you say, or they were originally, and as such don't have to follow the caol le caol, leathan le leathan rules. But those spellings where they do follow the rules have been around a long time, so I don't think they're necessarily errors by people who didn't know when the rules shouldn't apply. It's probable that both forms were used? Do you know what Ó Corráin says about Caolfhionn/Caoilfhionn SeanChailleach? It doesn't help that caoil and caol sound very similar in some dialects and not in others...it could have added to the spelling challenge.
I don't think you'd have to write to them in Irish OP. Or maybe just the greeting and thank yous?

Lizzie when I say the English word keel like the bottom of a boat my mouth is a completely different shape to when I say the Irish word caol. If you listen on teanglann you might hear the difference. They sound completely different to me anyway. More like qui-ul or qui-ul and I can't think of a way of writing the Munster way. Kwee-lin or Queelin would be a bit closer.

Sean when I say the sadness at the loss of the language it's both sounds and grammar and sounds indicating grammar. Cuir is said like it's some like of hound, and so is chuir which is even worse. Chuaigh is said as cúig, leabhar and leabhair are pronounced the same, the plural of the tuiseal ginideach is being lost e.g. praising the team and praising the teams seem to be used interchangeably. Atá when it should be a bhfuil and so on. I often hear speakers that are much more fluent than I am, much wider vocabulary at the tip of their tongues and so on, on RnaG with no regard for feminine and masculine words, ch as a sound, gh as a sound, no palatization for plurals or the TG, no séimhiú for the TG, no urú or séimhiú for prepositions when required. Trí is said like it's a large plant that grows in forests, cré is said like it should end in fish and I don't know what else. And people will swear blind those pronunciations are right and that's what they learned in school (learned cur for cuir and chuir myself so I get it, doesn't make it right) and that it's what everyone says and it's down to dialect.

I do see that languages become more standardised and simplified which is fine, but I feel the loss of the sounds are more due to Irish being learned mainly by English speakers and using English approximations for Irish sounds that don't exist in English.

I heard a woman on the radio sometime before Christmas reporting from New England somewhere. Possibly Covid, possibly New York. No problem to her to use her Irish sounds though she has a clear American accent. I don't see anything wrong with speaking Irish in your own accent - heard a lovely Dublin accent (not the D4 accent) recently enough too, again with good pronunciation of individual sounds and accurate Irish.

Sorry to derail so much, OP.