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Original poster

Irish names help!

290 replies

nothingseasy · 17/03/2021 03:39

Hiya,
I'm calling out to all Irish speakers please.

I want to call my baby Ayveen In Irish. I've established from other threads that it's not Aoibheann or Aoibhinn or anything beginning with Aoi as this makes an ee sound. However nobody can conclusively say how it should be spelled.

I'd like to know what letters (diphthong/triphthong) make the aye/ay sound I am looking for. Do they exist in Irish?

Alternatives I've seen are

Éabhaoin
Éimhín
Aibhín

I personally favour the Aibhín but does ai in Irish make the sound ay?

Please help it's driving me mad!!

We are living in England and I want to keep a connection to my Irish heritage so I want an Irish name. We have trawled through them all and this is the only one we liked so when we found out it wasn't even said right we were devastated.

Please don't tell me not to bother with an Irish name in England or that I shouldn't give it an Irish name because they will have trouble e.t.c.

Help resolving the spelling is really all I am after.

Thank you x

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Apileofballyhoo · 19/03/2021 16:03

I think I will contact RnaG and get back to everyone and see what they say. Let us know!

Original poster
nothingseasy · 19/03/2021 15:55

@Gwenhwyfar

"ll names are made up because language is made up"

Apart from Esperanto and a couple of others, languages are not made and neither are names. They develop.

Yes I know they aren't always set in stone but we did make up rules for languages, some are bendable and some aren't. Just trying to find which ones I can and can't bend 🤔
OP posts:
Gwenhwyfar · 19/03/2021 15:43

"ll names are made up because language is made up"

Apart from Esperanto and a couple of others, languages are not made and neither are names. They develop.

Apileofballyhoo · 19/03/2021 15:42

@IsFuzzyBeagMise

Deirdre as 'Dayrdre' and not 'Deerdree'!!

Some Irish names would leave you flabbergasted. That's quite an evolution from Conchubar to Connor.

I've heard native speakers saying dayrdreh as you've said there, fuzzy. I can't follow the Conor thing myself - sometimes I feel like I imagined the whole thing but wasn't he the man who married Deirdre or wanted to before she ran off with Naoise? I probably have that all wrong. And I think that was said like Cruh-hoor Mac Neasa.
LizzieAnt · 19/03/2021 15:39

GrinGrin

Yes, I like Órla. A friend, Órlaith, who has a degree in Irish, gets Oar-lat from her child's primary school teacher (in Ireland). She's not too impressed Grin
(I'm being very hard on teachers today, sorry!)

I've heard Conchúr as Cun-uh-hoor too, though it's not the most attractive pronunciation now we all speak English!

forvo.com/word/conch%C3%BAr/

IsFuzzyBeagMise · 19/03/2021 15:38

I also heard Órla growing up and it was a popular name (Cork city school in the 1970's).

Apileofballyhoo · 19/03/2021 15:38

@LizzieAnt

I've seen it without the fada too, as Eimhear (says she quickly running away Grin)
Run! Ar nós na gaoithe!
IsFuzzyBeagMise · 19/03/2021 15:37

Deirdre as 'Dayrdre' and not 'Deerdree'!!

Some Irish names would leave you flabbergasted. That's quite an evolution from Conchubar to Connor.

Apileofballyhoo · 19/03/2021 15:32

@LizzieAnt

OK thanks. Most people around here do say Oar-la I think, so I hadn't come across that. I thought it was just an English thing.
Órla sounds so much prettier too I think. Glad you hear that around you. I knew four growing up, which is a lot for a small town! Must have been a popular 70s name. Fairly sure one DF used to call his DD Órla but the DM said Orla. The rest of them all were Orla.
LizzieAnt · 19/03/2021 15:27

I've seen it without the fada too, as Eimhear (says she quickly running away Grin)

Apileofballyhoo · 19/03/2021 15:27

The spelling Éimhear is exactly how Máire Herbert used to say it.

Apileofballyhoo · 19/03/2021 15:25

I've never come across an Ay-ver in my life but plenty of Ee-mers. Deir in Deirdre clearly shouldn't be deer either but I've never met one who wasn't. Conor used to be spelled Conchubar or similar, and that was pronounced something like Cruh-hoor whenever a teacher read it out . I don't know how it became Conor.

IsFuzzyBeagMise · 19/03/2021 15:19

@Apileofballyhoo

Emer is É-ver! From my Celtic Civilization days. So the E is É and the m has a séimhiú. Orla should have a fada that's all. Like ór for gold. That's what it's from. Golden hair or something, I can't remember.
Ah, Éimhear?

Yes, that makes sense.

Original poster
nothingseasy · 19/03/2021 15:15

@IsFuzzyBeagMise

Yes. I see what you mean.

Éabhaoin might work too, logically. Should there be a fada there?
I think Éibhín looks neater.

Your head must be melted by now @nothingseasy Grin

I prefer the éibhín spelling tbh.

Yes it is a bit!!

I think I will contact RnaG and get back to everyone and see what they say.

It seems like there are quite a few mispronunciations though, now we have discussed it, like Niall which is making me wonder if Aoibhín is that bad? I think I like Éibhín though... I had a look on fb and there are a few who spell it like that

OP posts:
Original poster
nothingseasy · 19/03/2021 15:12

@LizzieAnt

Many Irish people can't say the sounds either OP. I agree so much about them being lost ApileofBallyhoo but thought it was confined to the schools - I didn't realise it had extended to RnaG ( which I really should start listening to again). The standard among teachers (in English language schools at least) is poor, or it is in our school anyway, so the children have no hope of picking up the correct sounds. Seesaw was a bit of an eye opener in that regard I'm afraid. My Irish isn't the best, so I know it can be hard, but pronunciation is fundamental imo.
True!
OP posts:
LizzieAnt · 19/03/2021 15:09

OK thanks. Most people around here do say Oar-la I think, so I hadn't come across that. I thought it was just an English thing.

Apileofballyhoo · 19/03/2021 15:09

Think the old way of spelling it is Órfhlaith. But the new spellings got rid of loads of silent letters. Some people don't like that because you can't see the etymology of words without the extra letters.

Apileofballyhoo · 19/03/2021 15:06

Emer is É-ver! From my Celtic Civilization days. So the E is É and the m has a séimhiú. Orla should have a fada that's all. Like ór for gold. That's what it's from. Golden hair or something, I can't remember.

IsFuzzyBeagMise · 19/03/2021 14:54

Like oh-ar-la then? It's a diphthong?

What about Emer? Isn't it Ee-mer?! Don't tell me it's Ay-mer!

Apileofballyhoo · 19/03/2021 14:53

Yeah, I suppose without the fada, sorry, didn't really answer the question!

Apileofballyhoo · 19/03/2021 14:51

No I just meant it should be Oar like the thing for rowing a boat, but people say Or like either or kind of or. I do it myself and I know a couple of people who have the name who also say Or-la. Which means vomit I think. There was a thread about it!

LizzieAnt · 19/03/2021 14:42

What's wrong with Órla, Apileofballyhoo? Do you mean using it without the fada is the problem? Or is there something else?

IsFuzzyBeagMise · 19/03/2021 14:19

I think you're getting close to the nub of it, Apile.

I'd put a few punt on it, or a packet of Tayto.

Apileofballyhoo · 19/03/2021 14:12

See, who knows, Fuzzy. Did it become a popular name with the Celtic revival, I wonder? Because Deer-dra, Et-na and Ee-mer are not accurate pronunciations. Conor too I think. Kieran, Nye-all, Orla, there are a lot of them.

Did its similarity to aoibhinn the adjective give it that pronunciation? If the original bit at the end was finn or fionn as we spell on modern Irish, could that ever have had an ín sound? Does the ín sound come from words like binn and cinn but it's not actually accurate for Finn?

So many questions!

IsFuzzyBeagMise · 19/03/2021 13:58

@Apileofballyhoo

Lizzie we were talking about Ao=é in Munster except not when followed by 'i' so Aoi=í and wondering if the name was once spelled aobh and parts of Munster have kept the é sound. Something like that. I suppose particularly if it's a compound word Aobhfhinn like Caolfhionn but somewhere along the way it got an extra i added to it or possibly got mixed up with the actual adjective aoibhinn and maybe those are actually two different words anyway. Who knows.
Isn't there a good chance that the original name got mixed up with the adjective?
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